Friday, November 17, 2006

Why you should pay notice

The debate started here, with Nirav Mehta writing about two guys from his QA team disappearing without notice. And the recruiting company LioNBridge justifying it. Nirav believes this attitude reflects 'lack of ethics'

Vulturo responded with an impassioned piece on his own blog. His argument is:

Your employees are not your slaves... If you are unable to retain your employees, its your problem. Either you are lousy, or it is that they simply don’t wanna work for you. There’s no way you can force them too. Cribbing about it isn’t going to help either.

The answer to not giving a notice period, according to Vulturo, is that the employer can deduct that month's salary from the employees dues.

Vulturo reflects the attitude of most young workers today. They realise 'we are an asset' and not beholden to anyone for a job. There are plenty of opportunities out there - if I can bend the rules, I do. So what?

Such practices (encouraging the new employees to leave the company without proper notice) are bad for the industry in the long-term. says Ashish, who runs his own company - Tekriti Software. And I, on his side of the fence, would agree.

But the argument I would put forth against not giving a notice is a bit different. I would say follow the rules, out of enlightened self interest.

The world is a complex mesh of relationships. And the working world is no different. At the beginning of your career, it may not be so evident. But 10-15 years down the line you will find that it is the relationships you have built - with bosses, peers, subordinates, even suppliers - which really matter.

In the longer run, it's not just about WHAT you know but WHO you know and what they think of you. Do people trust you? Do they like you? If a background check were to be conducted, would your former employers and co workers refer to you positively?

I am not joking when I say the past comes back to haunt you. Recently, a company in the US contacted me for a reference check on someone who briefly worked with me at JAM. A decade ago. The guy had embellished his CV - claiming to have worked at JAM for 1.5 years when the actual duration was 6 months.

What's more, he did not leave on a good note. Neither did he keep in touch. I sent a one liner back, with his actual period of employment, as an answer. I don't know if my one line affected his career or not - frankly I don't care.

Similarly, I find many of the people who have worked with JAM come back requiring recommendation letters when they apply to universities abroad. Or even ISB. And I have, as a policy, decided I will give these letters only to those who I feel good about.

After all, a recommendation letter is not a right but a privilege.

What I am saying is that neither Infosys, nor Nirav's company or Ashish's or mine can stop attrition. People are free to choose employment as and where they wish. Yes, we will all work towards the three important points which Vulture mentioned:

- Brand Value
- Job Content, Ownership, Work Environment (and other unquantifiable attributes)
- Remuneration

But a notice period is above and beyond all this.

Leaving without notice period, to my mind, reflects lack of common courtesy. And it is a behaviour that we as a company do not encourage. If you were already employed somewhere, but willing to join me tomorrow, I would look at it in an unfavourable light.

Other companies are free to have their own policies. And you are free to behave boorishly if you wish. But ten years from now, you may regret this impulsive behaviour.

"Every action has an equal and opposite reaction", as Newton once said. It may take a long time for the other party to find an opportunity to react but destiny generally provides for one.

I mean, God forbid if you harbour dreams of starting your own company... Your former boss - who you so unceremoniously walked out on - is now the CEO of a large company. Which could have been a potential client.

The guy who ended up doing all your work when you scampered off? He ended up at Wharton and is now a venture capitalist you're chasing. Without much success.

And the very notice period you once disdained, is now something you expect from those working with you. In fact, it's a cause you're passionate about :)

So, collect good karma and maintain that positive vibe. Isi mein samjhdaari hai, aur success bhi.


  1. I agree. What if employer/boss has made employee's life hell. There are many companies which demand 3 months notice period. In that case its just not worth it.

  2. Anonymous3:17 PM

    Hi iagree with u

  3. Anonymous3:52 PM

    Well said. Point taken. I fully agree with you when you talk about "good karma". From an individual standpoint, it definitely pays to quit jobs without leaving any bitter aftertastes - that is a no brainer.

    In my post I did not state that not giving a notice period is a 'good idea' from an employee's standpoint. But that apart, I still maintain that an employer does not have a right to expect employees to serve out the notice period, perforce, as long as the employee compensates the employer in monetary terms.

    I've looked at thousands of (other peoples') 'appointment letters' throughout my career and all of them mention that during the probation period an employee may quit the company at an x days notice (usually 15), failing which he would be required to buy it out by paying x days salary upfront, adjusting it against the leave pending, or the same will be deducted from his dues.

    After completion of the probation period, the rules remain the same, except that the duration of the notice period increases (to 30 days, 60 days or 90 days).

    My contention is that provided an employee is willing to compensate the notice period in terms of up-front payment, leave adjustment, etc (or as deduction from dues as a last resort), you, as an employer, simply do not have a right to insist that he serves it. (Actually meaning, you do have a right to insist, if you want to, but do not have a right to have the demand fulfilled)

    PS: In one place, you refer to me as "Vulture", as against Vulturo. Could you please correct it?

  4. Was going to post a comment, but it kept growing bigger and bigger, so instead I posted it on my blog. Do read it though.

  5. Reshmi,since we are on different sides of the table,let me share my experiences with you.Aftermath of dot-com bubble in 2001,an IT company(ranks in top 10) asked around 600 of employees to sign a month old back-dated resignation letter and get relieving letter.The alternative was getting fired straight away. And this was not one of case. It was happening across all-most all the big IT companies at that time,with some minor exceptions.If for better future of the company,the employer don't hesitate to terminate you,what stops you from doing the same for your own good. If possible both parties try to go by the rule book,but there are times when you don't or can't play the fair game.

    Going by your logic that you should not severe the bond/relationship the fired employee could go on to become the CTO of a large company whose IT project the employer might be bidding for.

    Believe me when huge amount of money are in stake these personal experience doesn't matter.All you see the merits and demerits of the proposal. If you are willing to go by your old relations only, you will end up only loosing.

    Also a small question: If the former JAM employee who had embellished his CV,had departed in good terms would you still send the one-liner back ?

    The reason I say this is if you are tweaking the facts there are hell lot of ways to get caught.So the example you gave doesnot hold true in this case.

  6. u know what the concept of notice period is all goofed up in India.... traditionally it was supposed to protect the employees against the whims and fancy of their employer... "you are fired!"

    however services companies with an attrition rate of 20-30% find it a good source of revenue...

  7. Rashmi ji!
    your post was awesome, I agree to whatever you said but while going the comments section I read Chilla Bong's comments and I think he raised a couple of valid points. what'z your take on that? please comment

  8. hi,
    while i agree little bit to rashmi's comments but i think i can relate more to chilla Bong's comments..
    if you are treated good at work and work like family and not robots in office u will see the attrition rate will always be high .
    just an example adding to chila bong's comments ,if the person whose reference check came to you rashmi,later on if that person turns out to be a CEO and yur company has some business work with him would you not work with him just because he left like that .Had the guy just got the good word from you he might have got a good job .while what u said was not false but i think a better reply wud not have caused any harm .probably gandhigiri is not easy to follow:)

  9. Anonymous8:16 PM

    Hi Rashmi,
    if i am an employee of a company, i have to obey the rules and regulations of the company or else i should not join the company.

    But on the other side,
    why should companies make to sign the bond for the fresher for 6 months to 1 year or to have a notice period of 3 months. are not they taking the advantage of an unemployed youth.
    will you wait for an employee to join after three months (after you select the person for a job) because he/she has to serve the 3 months notice period for the previous employer.

    I have joined as fresher. i dont know whats all written in that bulk document which i have signed when joining the job. no one cared to explain me, i also didn't care to see whats there in the document.

  10. I am in a government job, (we have transfer counselling), and when I got a transfer to another district, I spoke with my deputy director for half an hour saying that I am going to the other district only because my wife got a job there (the truth was that they were piling a lot of workload on my shoulders !!!)

    And last month, I called the DD over phone on the diwali day...

    Who knows... When I become the deputy director, she may well be the director !!!

    But, I don't find such behaviour in today's corporate (especially Computer) world.

    THe question is not whether you have the right to move to another company. It is how you exit (gracefully or forcefully)

    Unless you have some hard feelings with your old boss, it is better that you say that you are moving out for your family reasons only


    Even if you have a hard feeling, it is better to tell the same reason

    As you have rightly told, past may come to haunt in future

  11. //Believe me when huge amount of money are in stake these personal experience doesn't matter.All you see the merits and demerits of the proposal. If you are willing to go by your old relations only, you will end up only loosing.//

    I will call this as inexperience and out of touch with reality.

    Personal experiences DO Matter and old relations DO matter

  12. There are mean spirited employers and mean spirited employees. Both, in my opinion, ultimately suffer. That's all I have to say on this subject!

    Most of you are employees, and young ones at that, so I can't expect you to 'relate' to my point of view. Maybe five years from now .. :)

    Lastly, the example I have provided is illustrative. I am not in the business of taking 'revenge'.

    I don't see myself lying about anyone's period of employment, whether or not they gave a notice
    But in case there is affection ot regard for someone, I will consider sticking my neck out in other ways.

    I do believe relationships matter.
    I also accept that people can and do move on.In fact, to some extent they must - for the health of the company itself!

    But that is the subject of another post..

  13. Anonymous12:53 AM

    Rashmi, your post seems to have been copy pasted by Anu here:

    I couldnt find any credit given to you. Do have a look. Have posted a comment there about it, and also on the desipundit linked post.


  14. WHile no doubt employees behave irresponsibly , in my experience many of todays blue chip companies are not far behind too. Only that they draft rules or justify themselves in legalese, but at the end of the day, the objective is to stiff the employee. This can be in the form of with holding arrears, deliberate delay in giving a clearance certificate and may other tactics, which the employee has little power to fight, except plead with the company. Sadly, this rarely comes to light and it is employees misdemenours which get publicity, becuase companies are organized and can place "news" or discuss their problems in public fora.

  15. I believe employees alone are not responsible for this. Recruiting companies often encourage this practice by asking/forcing the recruits to join immediately.

  16. Anonymous3:13 PM

    I like your Blog ver much

  17. Hi Rashmi,

    I have had the experience of working in, and leaving many ad agencies, an industry where the attrition is quite high.

    Here I have always seen people who ‘scoot off’ without any notice especially during the first week of the month once the salary is credited. While people like us who prefer to serve the proper notice period have to actually pay a price of that notice period! Because once you have done the thing and left the place, you are made to wait endlessly for the final month’s pay-cheque and until unless you make several rounds of the accounts department your dues won’t be cleared.
    This has happened without fail at almost all the places, except my last agency.
    Now this is all fair to ask the employees to follow the ethics, but can we have some thing asking the companies to get ethical as well!


  18. Anonymous8:07 PM

    i like your blog

  19. An employer is better off without an unhappy employee. Today, if you understand technology well enough, you can earn more than any job without interacting with any person.

  20. please d read this also.....
    The company in question here is MBT.

  21. Anonymous3:51 AM

    Nice post and Agree to most of the things you have said here but its not just the employees but the employers too , who should change their attitude.

    One of my Engineering college junior was offered a job recently by a US-Based World-Renowned database company(now you know who I am talking abt). When he said he couldnt join them without serving a month's notice in his current company, The HR Manager of the new company asked him(and this was in a serious tone) to call in sick for a month in the old company and to join them from the next day. I was qiute shocked to hear this and it gave me an indication of the state of the affairs to win the race of talent in India these days. But yes, it the HR Manager is setting such an example for the new joiners, the company shudnt be surprised if they get paid in the same coin.

  22. Anonymous7:23 AM

    Gr8 post Rashmi!

    But getting back to square zero, I would question employer's policy to keep notice period of 3 months! I very well understand the reasoning behind the notice period to wrap up your work and do the knowledge transfer to someone else.

    But when employers are trying to be mean with unreasonable 3 month notice period, then employees also dont support HR policies.

    Ofcourse, no employee enjoy spoiling relation with his/her previos employer. But they had to do it as they are left with no other option.

    And I really doubt how productive are these employees during their notice period? Becasue they are physically present in the office, but their mind has already gone somewhere else.

    I would rather keep a variable notice period. When I am sure that I have got the all information about the project from that employee on which he/she was working, he/she is free to leave. It can be 1 week or even 1 month.

    So both employers and employees should be reasonable. "Tali ek haath se nahi bajati"

  23. Nirav's post is the whinge of a bourgeois landlord who feels that he has lost the power to control his employees.
    The IT sector has turned the normal rules of employment upside down. Employees - make hay while the sun shines.

    I am old enough to remember the days when one had to pay money to get a job / even apply for one. One often had to answer ridiculous questions. Watch a few movies from the 70's and 80's.

    Employees have been screwed over and still are by employers (both big and small). This one is for the employees.

    Inquilab Zindabaad.

  24. There's a good and healthy debate going over the issue. While both parties have some valid points and reasons,the truth lies in the newton's 3rd law. to be more precise your karma.

  25. Anonymous3:50 PM

    A background first: 22, M, 16 months in a consulting firm. Quit. Served notice period, now writing for a youth magazine in Delhi.

    I went through sleepless nights while i was leaving the firm. And while i DID serve the notice period (without much of an arguement), it left a bad taste in my mouth.

    1. The employer may have a very long duration of notice period. Sometimes it crosses into the realms of senselessness.

    2. Sometimes, different employees get different deals. Its just not fair.

    3. Seperation is looked at as a crime, rather than a means to exploring new avenues.

    All of these things happened to me when I left. Maybe mine is an extreme example...

    But here's my point:
    Even if the employees are super nice to their employees, the employees do not really care.
    So *why* should the employee care.

    Sure, your ex-boss may be a future CFO. And the person who does the leftover work may go to wharton -- All very compelling arguements, however, Does that justify the employee being treated like a doormat and accepting it.

    I dont think so.

    I did the whole courtesy bit, left on a good note- but it seems the other people who said "i want an extended leave, & if you dont give it - then dont expect a notice period out of me" ... seem to have gotten the better end of the stick.

  26. Anonymous5:37 PM

    Hello I like ur blog

  27. A few weeks back 40% of the workforce in my co. was asked to leave and they were given 5 mins. to pack their stuff (on monday evening and the reason was 'skill set mismatch').
    In the world of employees and employers finding a common ground to work for each other (let's not talk about loyalty!)and doesn't take much time to break tht thread, why do you think it's important for an employee to play goodies?
    Actually, a friend of mine left his earlier org. after he realized that his boss is a complete a**h*le - and now his boss is the CEO of a startup. Mr. boss contacted me for a potential offer. Do you think I will join his co.? Infact, that guy desperately wants few good people((IIT/IIM branded - and is ready to pay good paycheck as well). But isn't successful. Why? Because my friend shared his experience with whole lotta friends and those guys with theirs.
    At the end of the day, people join companies but quit their bosses. So, if those QA guys have left the co. it's time to Q&A their boss as well - Why did they quit? Were they assigned the right kinda stuff (as promised during the interview phase?)? The fact that they literally ran away shows that there is something wrong with the co's approach as well.
    This is not a black or white scenario. I do agree that it's good to have a cordial relationship with your prev. employer, but at the end of the day - It's your life. And if you are working for an a**h*le, you have gotta be strong enough to turn the tide.
    And all these relationships are on professional front.
    iDea Labs

  28. Anonymous5:58 AM


    An awesome post as usual...
    I couldn't agree more to what you are saying...
    notice periods are important and should be respected by both employers and employees.
    But the unfortunate truth is there is a lack on ethics in honouring notice period commitments, both from employers and employees.

    Consider my case. I resigned after 3.5 yrs of service, a long time considering my company's attrition rate :). I was going for higher studies and not to another job. My visa had been delayed and I had to travel within 45 days of my resignation. The notice period in the company was 2 months. During the discussions, I stated my situation and requested them to waive off one month from the notice period. After 2 weeks of negotiation, they finally agreed that I serve one month and they'll waive the rest off.
    But the last day, after I got my relieving letter and returned my ID card, I was told that they had decided against it!!
    I couldn't even enter the premises to discuss the issue. It took a lot of haggling to finally get the waiver.

    In my opinion, it's not just the employees, but the employers also who need to show maturity in handling notice periods. Parting with a company should not leave a bitter taste for either the employers or the employees.

  29. Rashmi,

    myself - 5 years & in the 3rd job.
    I would agree with you that an employee must seve his notice period, if for nothing else than for good relations.
    In my industry - pharmaceuticals and more so in my work area, the field is really small and every one knows every one else.
    I left my 1st Org, and actually convinced my then boss to waive 2/3 of the notice period. & in the 2nd case, got away with 1/2 of the period. Never paid a rupee as notice purchase. I do not suggest ever purchasing the period as it smacks of high handedness, even if your next employer is ready to purchase it.

    Also, the fact is that the Organisation is always more powerful than an employee, so leaving on a +ve note makes a lot of sense.

    I think a majority of your blog commentors come from IT and hence they have a different view of things.


  30. Rashmi
    I wish you had applied some Gandhigiri concepts with your ex-colleagues!

    I have been in a similar situation, but somehow I had a feeling that the guy was a misfit in IT industry (he worked with me,fought with everybody in the team while leaving and left for MBA). So when the time came for reco letter, I made sure that I overlook all of our past relationship and I always had a feeling that this fella is not at all a technie material!..
    Now that guy is out of MBA and we are good friends..
    Point that I am trying to make is many a times people are misfit in their current role (especially when the entire world is running after software industry), and I would rather judge them by their intelligence/attitude rather than their current assignment.
    Infact, it's good that such people quit org. and cause less harm.

    iDea Labs

  31. i like your blog. pl visit my site.

  32. Anonymous10:33 PM

    Mr Ashish,

    This is especially for you."Who gave you the power and intelligence to decide whether this GUY was fit or misfit for the industry" ??Don't forget,that when you make such immature statements ,the other three fingers are obviously pointing towards you.It raises a question on your credibiilty and competence as a boss,I don't think someone who has so much of vengeance for his subordinates can ever be confident about himself.

    And now,don't go and harm this person.I am one of those thousands of anonymous bloggers who visit this site very frequently and don't ever put a comment unless we come across such stupid comments from you.And next time you vent out such nuissance about your subordinates at such public places,please give it a serious thought,bec. these are the kind of bosses,people hate.

    You might have passed from an IIM or IIT ,as you have mentioned in your profile,but such loose talks certainly don't impress any of the readers here.So think,before you speak.

  33. Anonymous5:36 PM


    I started by commenting here but couldnt and then saved & posted my comments at

  34. Interesting take from an employee's long-term perspective! Can't agree more.

    My own take on the issue is at

    Oh & btw, what's the deal about letting only blogspot users comment on your blog? Aur bhi bahut saare blog hosting sites hain, ma'am! ;-)

  35. to Just Mohit,
    though u asked the question to rashmi i wud like to comment on it since i am a regular reader of this blog as to :
    itne saare blog sites hain to aap idhar kyun padhaar rahe hain .
    if u want i can also tell u some sites where u dont have to make a
    ID even ,u can write whatever u want as anonymous and ask people to comment ,if u r intrested :)
    to moderate a entry in one's blog is one's personal decision ,and especially if people are going to post comments in sarcastic/foul way it helps too ;)

  36. Srinivas: The point I was making was with regard to the fact that having blogspot-user-only comments is fairly restrictive, and reduces participation. Blogspot does have the facility to allow you to moderate comments while allowing other blog engine users to participate!
    My question was not in a sarcastic tone at all. Although, if it came across in that way, I do apologise.

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  42. Anonymous11:12 PM

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  43. Anonymous11:01 PM

    Very true indeed. I agree with you 100% that every employee must give a proper notice period to the employer. But I feel the basic problem that needs to be addressed is attrition. Check out my experience in the IT insustry at

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  45. Here is my take on it -

    Having been in the IT industry for about a period of 5 years, I have seen that one has to be prepared for every eventuality including, what is commonly known as "The Bus Test". "The Bus Test" goes like this -

    What if coming into work one day, one of your team members gets hit my a bus and dies? How will your project cope then?

    The eventuality that an employee needs to leave and leave ASAP is something that needs to be planned for and having a two or three month notice period is NOT the answer. What if the employee had a family emergency and could no longer work? Do you still force the employee to work?

    Notice period is a legal agreement that needs to have a way out for all parties. In my opinion notice periods which do not have a buy out clause or have a buy out clause at the discretion of the company management is unethical in the least, if not bordering on being illegal.

    Whenever a contract is signed between two parties, there needs to be a "buy out" clause which leaves no room for discretion on either party. If I do not want to work, I do not want to work - Period. If because of my not working, you as a company are suffering a loss, I am willing to compensate you for it - to the extent of the salary you pay me. Forcing me to work during this time is a fundamental violation of my rights as a free and independent individual.

    Sure, every employee wants to part on good terms. However, circumstances do arise when an employee feels he/she needs to leave the company in a hurry and forcing an employee to stay on is not the answer.

    For example, in my case, the transition was completed in 3 weeks and I was willing to pay one month's salary in lieu of notice but my employer just wanted to continue billing me even though technically I had check marked all the boxes (Manager had agreed, Transition had taken place, I was willing to pay one month's salary).

    In the US there is a law which enforces this fundamental aspect of working - It is called "Employment at Will". It means that every employee is free to leave employement whenever he or she wants just as every employer is able to terminate any employee at will. Either party needs to give 2 weeks notice or salary in lieu of. There is no ambiguity and the law is nationally enforced.

    In India, 2 weeks notice would be considered very less and that is fine. Make it 2 months notice or salary in lieu of. However, there should be no room for discretion on either party and if an employee is willing to pay salary in lieu of notice, then it should be accepted by the company.

    I think a legal overhaul of this is long due and eventually we as a society will probably move towards that. Till that time, this is a nice discussion to have!

  46. Well,most of the bargains (deals with companies aka Offer Letter) on Notice period are typically one-sided. There is no collective bargaining. India is only weak in legislation around this even though I am not sure why Factories Act cannot be applied to most of IT / BPO companies.

    With due respects, companies exploit employees and a strong legisltive and legal redressal would be needed. Till then, absconding is the only way out.

  47. If interested read this blog:

  48. It's the same old story again.... Employer lays down all the rules and if the employee does not follow it then it is a bad employee...

    Recent very disturbing trends that 've noticed in the IT industry...

    All the major companies make the new employess sign bonds. Freshers are the most badly affected..The bonds are in the range of a few lakhs of rupees and the bond periods go to almost a few years (2 years is the longset 've come across) in fact the fresher has not choice all the major companies have the same kind of bond.. this is how the bond works... on the day of signing the offer letter one has to pay a X amount (usually ranges from 1lak to 2.5lak) if you dont have the money the company has its own bank that pays on your behalf and one signs an agreement with the bank to repay the amount... i think this is the heights ... companies are asking one to pay a huge and hefty sum to hire the so called best talents into the best industry ... and one has no choice X or Y one got to sign the bond and then starts the drama...

    # ur company has hired you to show bench strength
    # they give you high class training (they teach u java in a day , oracle in half day, on and so forth) end of training after 2 or 3 months one is trained in all the new technologies
    # 4 months down the line, they still cant place in u in any project
    # 6 months down the line the company is paying u the paltry sal they offered in the hike letter... no appraisals coz u r a fresher not confirmed only confirmed employees get sal hikes.. wen will u be a confirmed employee ?? after ur training period ... ? when is that .. that is when you have completed ur so called class training and another 12 months of project training ... after that u wait for another year for confirmation ... u r working on some low end job monitoring all the while...
    # during this whole period the company can fire u for n number of reasons, but u r still liable to pay the bond becoz u signed it with the bank
    # i know of a company in which on day one the guy some big shot who adressed the new joiness all freshers said "dont plan to get married or anything which might require you to leave within the next two years... i have only two words for him....
    # each new candidate company recruits it gets a few lakhs from the bank ... i know a company which recruited almost 5000 or 6000 people in the last 6 months or so with a 2 lak price on each new joinees head ... how much does that make 200000 multiplied by 6000 ... and now they are firing people for flimsy reasons like continued absence of more than a week.... even though the employee says that i informed, my leave was approved the HR simply says i didnt receive your email.....

    the saga continues....


  49. This comment has been removed by the author.

  50. I would say if serving a 3 months of notice period is so ethical, why not to make it a global policy across the country. Like Rashmi mentioned five years down the line young guns would understand serving notice period better, is she not herself ignoring the problems of their age.

  51. Anonymous8:57 AM

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