Friday, April 14, 2006

Caste vs community

I must've been 10 or 11 when I first remember some distant relative remarking, "Woh apne casht ka nahin hai".

It wasn't a derogatory remark, just a matter of fact one. Pointing to the fact that here was someone with different customs with respect to food or marriage or just the way a certain festival was to be celebrated.

So perhaps I should qualify my earlier remark about having grown up without the concept of caste. I did grow up without the concept of caste as some kind of rigid system which you're born into, that determines your entire existence.

But of course I was aware of 'caste' in terms of the way it is more often and casually used in India - as community. As V G Julie Rajan points out in an article in Hinduism Today:

Today, most Hindus do not abide by the chatur varna (four caste) system but classify themselves according to the more specific colloquial form of caste known as the jati system. Jati are horizontal divisions within the four castes, and there are thousands of them, segregated according to occupational, sectarian, regional and linguistic distinctions.

So when a Dalit leader lamented on NDTV,"They (as in upper castes) don't wish to marry us!" I wanted to point out to him that it's a much more complex issue than what he's suggesting. In a country where arranged marriages are still the norm, parents prefer to get the children married into families very similar to their own. So it's not caste per se they look at but 'community'.

As Madhu Kishwar, editor of Manushi magazine explains, "The operative unit even today for social and marriage purposes is not caste but jati. You talk of brahmins as a caste, which is pan-Indian, but the fact is that a Tamilian brahmin would rarely have a marriage alliance with a Punjabi brahmin. They are as far apart from each other culturally as could possibly be. It's really not the operative and, yet, we have the whole notion of Brahmin domination, Brahmins as a caste, whereas the regional differences matter much more."

I think this is an important point which is getting lost in the entire crusade against caste as a social system. I am not defending caste (in the classical sense) here. Although there are enough thinkers and historians who've pointed out that the system had its merits, but degenerated over a period of time.

The point is that degeneration (the practice of untouchability, specifically) is completely unacceptable in modern society. Neither do we, in a modern society, wish to be born in and be tied to a particular occupation.

The new interpretation of 'caste' is more in terms of a community of people who share ancestry, and certain social and cultural rituals. Again, this can be a bad thing if I feel my community is superior to yours. Or my allegiance to my community comes first. (Which is a sentiment politicians exploit when communities choose to see themselves as 'votebanks')

But there are positives as well!

Why community matters
The ideal state is if we can engineer a society where community is not our primary identity, but merely a part of it. But its existence makes us more interesting people than a country like America where within 2 generations, a person from Poland or Sweden or Russia simply became a standard issue 'American'.

In India it comes naturally to most people to identify the region from where a person originates, based on his surname. I think that's a cool skill to have - as long as you don't oppress, suppress or write off a person based on this information. That is the vision the nation-state must put forward.

Secondly, community serves as a kind of social security network for millions of people. And, according R Vaidyanathan, a professor of Finance at IIM Bangalore, it is also a form of social capital.

“Since 1985,” says the World Bank’s World Development report, “Tirupur has become a hotbed of economic activity in the production of knitted garments... The success of this industry is striking. This is particularly so as the production of knitted garments is capital-intensive, and the state banking monopoly had been ineffective at targeting capital funds to efficient entrepreneurs, especially at the levels necessary to sustain Tirupur’s high growth rates.”

"What is behind this story of development? The needed capital was raised within the Gounder community, a caste relegated to land-based activities, relying on community and family network. Those with capital in the Gounder community transfer it to others in the community through long-established informal credit institutions and rotating savings and credit associations. These networks were viewed as more reliable in transmitting information and enforcing contracts than the banking and legal systems that offered weak protection of creditor rights.”

Prof Vaidyanathan believes the amount of networking and contract enforcement mechanisms available with caste institutions has not been fully studied, despite the striking success of Tirupur. He observes, "Large amounts of literature are available on Marwaris, Sindhis, Katchis, Patels, etc, and the global networks they have created. But the point that is often still missed is that, in a financial sense, caste provides the edge in risk taking, since failure is recognised, condoned, and sometimes even encouraged by the caste group.

He concludes: The 1998 economic census ...revealed that eighty per cent of all the enterprises in the country (24.39 million) were self-financing. Much of it would have come from informal caste networks. Attention should, therefore, focus on enhancing credit systems for such enterprises, especially those owned by SC/ ST and other backward communities.

Incidentally, the census data showed that as much as half of all enterprises were owned by SCs/ STs/ OBCs in the rural areas and nearly 38% per cent in the urban areas. Of this a large chunk is owned by OBCs.

Our tribal minds

This division of mankind into "Us" and "Them" is a universal human trait. David Berreby has written an amazing book called exactly that - 'Us and Them: Understanding your Tribal Mind' which goes into the science behind why we behave as we do. It's not easy to read (I am stuck on page 103) but may be worth picking up!

He writes: "A category of person starts out as an idea in someone's mind. That person convinces others that he or she is onto something, nd the idea spreads. The people who belong to the newly minted human kind start using the concept to giuide their behaviour and understand themselves."

In recent times, new communities have emerged in India, based on shared beliefs and experiences. So for example, if a guy working in an advertising agency were to marry his colleague, both families may be quite OK with that because they perceive there is enough commonality between the two young people in terms of lifestyle and education to transcend differences like language or community in the traditional sense.

This new community now refers to itself in matrimonial columns as 'cosmopolitan'. But it's still, essentially looking for People Like Us. People who've been through similar schools/ colleges and work at certain kinds of places. People who share similar views on how life should be lived.

The point of what I'm writing is this: what makes this new community superior to the traditional ones? A cosmopolitan person would not marry someone who does not speak English or chews paan. Or exhibits any of a million other 'People Like Them' traits. How different is that from Agrawals saying we don't want our daughters to marry Jats?

To conclude: Caste - with its baggage of untouchability and occupational rigidity must be eliminated from our social system. But caste - as community is not necessarily a bad thing. It makes our country a richer and more interesting place to live in. Except when we use it to trample over each other. When we make it our sole badge of identity.

The idea of reservation for more and more castes - rather, communities - is a step in that very undesirable direction.

And with that I've said just about everything I could possibly say on this issue! It's back to the pavilion for now...


  1. Rashmi, I think most of us do appreciate and understand the social umbrella provided by virtue of belonging to a caste/community/any-other-social-group. It is only when these compartments get rigid, leading to prejudices against the 'them' that they become pernicious. And I agree with your point of the cosmopolitan 'us' too being in the danger of falling into this trap of judging people in terms of where they come from.

  2. Interesting article even though one can see it's written from an entirely metro-dweller's perspective.

    If you go into small towns/villages of Chhattisgarh/MP/UP, I am sure you'd be surprised how effortlessly pervasive and accepted the Caste System is.

    Back home, we have a Kashyap servant at home and she has access to kitchen and everyplace in the house including the Pooja Room; she is allowed to sit with us, watch TV, joke around, comb and dress my brother and stuff like that but the utensils for her meals and tea/water are separate. And almost all families have that system. How do you explain that?

    Anyways, hattrick of excellent posts! :-)

  3. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

  4. Social capital point is well taken. Your quoting examples of social capital as a form value creation as alternate to markets is very good.

    Correlating Casteism & Community is simillar to correlating Communism and Open source movement. There is nothing wrong in it but some word carry a historical baggage of negative cannotation that one never wants to use them to say in another context at all.
    As this could lead to people take up arms :)


  5. Wonderful. Echoes a stand/view have articulated in multiple discussion with friends on this tricky topic. Caste as Varna as meant in traditional hindu texts vs Jati as used in medieval india are two different things. Casteism reflects more of "Jaitiyata" in current world. For people interested in exploring the topic Caste beyong Rashmi's well researched article, I would refer a book by noted sociologist MN Srinivas called "Caste" which had read 10 years back.

    On this related issue of reservation my recommendation is

    a) When you meet the unintended beneficiaries then follow Jaya’s advice and make them see the implied insult.

    b) When you are among the aggrieved (people who will lose out because of reservations) show them the damage sins of past are doing to current generation and future generations. And urge them to go beyond caste based politics and need for reforms in these social evils. Don’t vote because of caste loyalties

  6. in india u get one gets married into a family and not to a person alone.a person of a different caste would find it odd to appreciate the traditions and customs of another everyone but his/her spouse he/she would remain an outsider.

    i'm saying this because if i remember right in anna university there is a ridiculous quota for someone who's parents have done inter caste marriage.

    its high time the state becomes meritocratic.


    The above link might be a good read for all those who wish to read about " Intercast Love Marriages "

  8. Here are a few random thoughts and tidbits of information
    1) Varna system is based on personal quality and actions and distinctly different from Jati which is based on parentage .
    2)The Anthropological Survey of India has identified 6,325 castes and 7,500 if we include urban-rural differentiations .
    3)When you think of caste , the concept of “cultural capital” is as relevant along-with concept of “social capital”. A businesswoman could learn analytical skills and importance of scientific temper from a scientist father and then use these to set up and run a business. It may be a case of converting cultural capital into financial capital
    4)Schools of sociology differ in how they conceptualise “class” . Earlier only “financial capital” would be taken into account to define class . Now you need to take into account the “cultural capital” and “social capital” as well .

    5) We now need to broaden the idea of “cream” (capital) as in creamy layer. A “poor” person from a caste which holds the reigns of business and government in its hands would have more “social capital “ at his disposal than even a seemingly better off person from another non elitist community . Many do cash on the “social capital” and turn into “financial capital” many times through their lives.
    6) One of the theories behind formation of modern nation states : Often common community has been the basis of formation of many nations on the globe . A single community or a few communities come together to form such nations. These communities then seem more legitimate than the Indian communities as they are no longer addressed as communities but as sacred nations !!
    7) Democracy thrives in multi community nations . Democracy acts as a glue holding such a nation to together.
    8) For those who advocate American style affirmative action : Conditions in which Affirmative action exists: ruler ( White ) representating majority community (White ) and a booming economy which allow for accomodation of natives Americans and Blacks . In order to have affirmative action in India members of statistical majority communities would have to take over the reigns of financial and poltical power and then regards the statistical minority community follow the practice of affirmative action if and when the state of economy allows .
    9) Until 1967 majority states in the USA had passed racial segregation laws that included the illegalization of interracial sexual contact or marriage. Legally sanctioned prohibitions on "miscegenation" imposed annulments and prison sentences on inter-racial couples. It took 1967 to arrive to change these laws! And that too was done by the the U.S. Supreme Court and not politicians !! It took more than 300 years of existence as a modern nation for this day to dawn !!!
    10) The rise of Ram Vilas Paswans , Laloo yadavs , Mayavati , Mulayam was a result of OBC , BC getting more and more politically organised . More people moved away from influential but statistically minor castes ruling the big parties. The anti- Mandal stand taken by the big parties brought into into focus the cold reality of it being ruled by elitist castes .

  9. Hi.. been a regular reader.. my first comment though.. more to do with the reservation blog..
    seems everyone's been cribbing abt it but no one seems to suggest pragmatic solutions.. well, here's how IIMK shows the way; with our Centre of Excellence... Do check out:

  10. "If the shudra intentionally listens for committing to memory the veda, then his ears should be filled with molten lead and lac;
    if he utters the veda, then his tongue should be cut off; if he has mastered the veda his body should be cut to pieces."

    XII. 4. Manusmriti

    Its seems India still lives in age of the utterly perverted Manu.For else how can we justify a graduate from a premier management institution,the editor of a prominent youth magazine and an entrepreneur who became inspiration to many saying that caste system makes india an interesting place to live..?

    When you are at the receiving end it wont be that interesting..Getting insulted almost every day in the name of caste is not fun.Nor does it make you happy to see women from your community get raped by Upper caste Men.When men from your community are not allowed to ride bicycles or even keep a moustache.

    Rashmi,with all due respect,all this still happens in the Culturally rich and religiously tolerant India. And all the good things in life was in fact RESERVED For the Upper castes for more than 2000 years

    And now when the rightfull shared is being demanded back ,the same upper caste afraid of loosing their dominence cry...say that its injustice...that it will reduce quality...

    Come on why can't we just atleast let them get educated? afterall they are not raping the uppercaste women just to have fun or beating up upper caste men because they can walk freely and wear a moosh..

    And regarding the nation getting divided...the nation was always divided,the united India exists only in text books...

  11. For ages,only the upper caste have got into good colleges..and then they sent their kids and so on..while the lower castes have not only missed out on the opportunity of good education but they also don't have the awareness nor the ability to inspire their kids to become someone..The result being there are very few people from the lower castes in top positions..the lucky ones who managed to snag top scores in schools and inspired themselves.They may be financially secure but exposure to the world is still a dream for many..because even after centuries,you still find illogical people who judge you on the basis of your caste.

  12. And about weddings,where i come from(which is a small town in Kerala)the only difference between a low caste and a high caste is in the marriage the upper,the bride's family buys her wedding saree and in the lower,the groom buys it for her..and such small other things..but the lifestyle,eating habits,etc are exactly the same..then how come no one agrees to intercaste marriages?

  13. Regarding the start of ur blog...
    I think most of the students(at least) these days grow up without the concept of caste in themselves. I remember when I was first asked about my caste. I had answered, "I am a Hindu" Well, I was in 10std. that I felt that it's SOMETHING, and I had to ask my parents about it.

  14. There is NO connection of the caste system with religion.
    Caste(Jati) is a form of social stratification .Whereas Varna as mentioned in scriptures is different concept alltogether .
    The status of one caste differed from region to region. A caste which is untouchable in one region may not be considered untouchable in another region.
    As an example... if you thought a brahmin cannot be an untouchable please look up the following play at this link .

    or even the following link

    Rashmi's article about Caste v/s community is very good . Only wonder why it is titled as caste v/s community ! Isn't caste a form of community ?

    Its a popular misconception that caste system is found only in India.Apart from France,Korea as mentioned by Rashmi caste system is also found in Japan , Sri Lanka , Mali, Mauritania, Senegal, Gambia, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Ivory Coast, Niger, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, Ghana, Liberia, Sierra Leone, Algeria, Nigeria, Chad, Ethiopia , Somalia,Nepal , Bali ,Pakistan and Bangladesh.

    Converting to another religion often does not change the caste of the person . Clearly some other dynamic other than religious belief is involved in formation and maintainance of the caste system.

  15. Greeks had a word for a kind of love which was based on shared sense of values or even sense of family . "STORGE". This "STORGE" love is the basis for sense of community or as in India we say "Jati" .

  16. I feel that OBC is not a category as such. It is just a sythetic collection of certain segments of the ppl. And reservations should be reduced and not further extended. My complete thoughts on the issue are here

  17. The politicians should practise what they preach. I request BJP to let Pramod Mahajan be treated by a SC/ST category doctor. More of my views here.

  18. vaibhav, I agree completely. affirmative action must begin home. they must make it compulsory for all politicians to avail tratments from the reserved category doctors, and then ask for reservations in the private sector

  19. 'So when a Dalit leader lamented on NDTV,"They (as in upper castes) don't wish to marry us!" I wanted to point out to him that it's a much more complex issue than what he's suggesting. In a country where arranged marriages are still the norm, parents prefer to get the children married into families very similar to their own. So it's not caste per se they look at but 'community'.
    so what are you trying to say, that the caste system doesn't exist any more ? the castes have divided into jatis but they still retain one basic feature of caste- endogamy. the newly,and very loosely coined term 'community' is too dignified a name for this new species. the basic drawback of the caste/jati system is that it restricts mobility..that hasn't changed.
    "The operative unit even today for social and marriage purposes is not caste but jati. You talk of brahmins as a caste, which is pan-Indian, but the fact is that a Tamilian brahmin would rarely have a marriage alliance with a Punjabi brahmin. They are as far apart from each other culturally as could possibly be. It's really not the operative and, yet, we have the whole notion of Brahmin domination, Brahmins as a caste, whereas the regional differences matter much more."
    both kishwar and you are being very clever here:mandal identifies 3500 jatis,taking due cognizance of the fact that the castes have multiplied- but the basic fact that these shudra jati groupings still occupy a lower position than the brahmin/kshatriya/vaishya groupings hasn't changed. caste ms.bansal, isn't really the harmless idiosyncrasy of indian society that you're trying so very hard to paint it as- caste is so very restrictive that even today less than 10% of the people in the country marry outside their jati. it isn't such a benign, porous system as you are trying to make it.

  20. I got into blogging very recently and it so happened that your Blog is among the few suggested by my old student.I went through some of the articles and decided to post my comment first for this one.
    Incidentally I got some oppourtunity to do some research/consultancy work in the area of clusters and that helped me to gain some insights on this which I want to share here.As Prof.Vaidyanathan of IIM (B) pointed out rightly community played a critical role in the cluster formation as well as their performance levels.The most important factor for the success of any industrial clusters is the presence of a network supplied by the community system.Infact Prof.C.K.Prahalad terms them as community clusters.As you quoted rightly the success of clusters like Tiruppur is singularly attributable to the communoty factor.The role played by the community can best be understood by the fact that these clusters are contributing much more in terms of exports,employment,etc than the industrial estates promoted by the Government agencies.More importantly,as pointed out in your article their dependence on formal financial institutions was close to zero.
    But there is another side to this.In the case clusters the network is formed even before the purpose is defined because of the community factor.But I am afraid now the need today is to go beyond the community affliation and cement the cluster networking on the basis of cluster dynamics.The social capital supplied by the community system which served so well so far may not deliver results.
    A couple of years ago when I was immersed in the cluster assignment I was asked to speak to a group of foreign students who had come here.Interestingly they asked me to talk about the Community Systemin India.One of the things I said that day after some introspection is:whatever happened (both good and bad) so far is because of our community or caste system.In the same way whatever has not happened (both good and bad) is also because of this system.
    What I am trying to communicate is the system though served wonderfully in terms of industrial clusters need to be flexible enough to make the performance sustainable.I have a feeling it is already happening in clusters like Tiruppur.It is no longer dominated by one particular caste.It is slowly becoming diverse in nature and there lies its future growth.
    One of the comments posted also talks about cultural capital.One thing I want to point out is ther are similar kind of clusters functioning across the breadth and width of the country.They are known as craft clusters and they are some times referred to as cultural industry.But since most of these clusters are populated by lower caste people most of them are either on the verge of death or struggling to survive.I dont know whether we can attribute the changes in the external environment as the sole reason for their dismal performane.


  22. Anonymous9:23 AM

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