Thursday, June 01, 2006

JAM Engineering College Ratings - II

There's been an amazing response to my previous post asking engineering students to help JAM with its Engineering College Rating exercise.

That's the good news. The bad news is the task is so gigantic that we aren't actually going to publish a comprehensive national/ statewise rating this year.

We will only be publishing Mumbai, Delhi and possibly Pune ratings. These happen to be our biggest markets as a print magazine and we've been tracking institutes here long enough to pronounce judgement with confidence and credibility.

Of course, we're also conducting a physical reccee as well as interviewing students and experts to reach our conclusions.

But the process of data collection for the larger exercise has begun. All those of you who wrote in to me will receive the questionnaire shortly.

The Methodology
However, there are larger issues which we are also debating. For example, the methodology. There are currently two engineering college rankings being published:

1) Dataquest-Nasscom : This survey considered 4 parameters-placement, infrastructure, intellectual capital and industry interface. Recruiter's feedback on the institute is taken into consideration.

The weights were distributed as: Placements (40%), Infrastructure (15%), Intellectual Capital (15%) and Industry Interface (5%). The total weightage assigned to objective data was 75%.

2) India Today: The magazine prepares a master list of 700 colleges in different streams - 400 of which are shorlisted based on perception of 90 experts such as college principals, HoDs and deans across 10 cities. A further shortlist of 210 colleges is prepared based on perceptual scores from 400 experts.

Now, factual information is collected on these 210 colleges on parameters such as placement, infrastructure and faculty to get a factual score. Overall score is given by applying a 70: 30 weightage to perceptual and factual scores.

So essentially, DQ gives 75% weightage to 'factual' data, of which placement is given maximum importance. India Today gives 70% weightage to perception data, so any relatively new college rarely makes it even to the 400 shortlist stage.

A quick comparison of the top 20 Engg Colleges acc. to both rankings

Data quest 2005
1 IIT Kanpur
2 IIT Bombay
3 IIT Madras
4 IIT Kharagpur
5 ITBHU
6 IIT Guwahati
7 NIT Warangal
8 NIT Trichy
9 TIET, Patiala
10 NSIT
11 NIT Suratkal
12 MNIT,Allahabad
13 Punjab Engg College
14 IIIT Hyderabad
15 BITS, Pilani
16 IIT Roorkee
17 NIT Rourkela
18 NIT Kurukshetra
19 IIIT Allahabad
20 Delhi College of Engg

India Today 2006
1.IIT Delhi
2.IIT Kanpur
3.IIT Mumbai
4 IIT Kharagpur
5 IIT Chennai
6 IIT Roorkee
7 Delhi College of Engineering
8 NIT Suratkal
9 IT BHU
10 NIT Warangal
11 IIT Guwahati
12 College of Engineering, Guindy
13 NIT Trichy
14 TIET, Patiala
15 PIET Pune (COEP)
16 UVCE Bangalore
17 BIT Ranchi
18 NIT Jalandhar
19 GND Ludhiana
20 MNIT Allahabad

IIT Delhi did not participate in the Dataquest ranking while BITS Pilani does not feature in India Today rankings because of an ongoing dispute between BITS and India Today.

Offhand, I would say that while both rankings are flawed, India Today's is more flawed. GND Ludhiana comes in at no 19 while Punjab Engineering College Chandigarh does not feature at all. Again, from the little I know, UVCE would not be the top ranked engineering college in Karnataka after NIT Suratkal.

IIIT kya cheez hai India Today is yet to learn...

However, BITS Pilani featuring at no 15 below Thapar Institute and Punjab Engineering College (as per Dataquest) simply boggles the mind also. NSIT may have made huge leaps but surely can't rank at no 10 while DCE comes in at no 20!

Both methods are flawed - so the challenge is to formulate a credible alternative.

How JAM will be different
Firstly, the objective of the JAM Ratings is to guide the students who wish to choose an engineering college. And hence it will aim to cover 250-300 colleges across the country.

In the current pecking order, the student's top choice is an IIT or BITS Pilani.
If not successful, a highly ranked NIT would be the next choice.

Now the question here is would I prefer an NIT Trichy or Suratkal to IIT Guwahati or Roorkee? If so, would that make sense for some particular streams?? Or is the 'IIT is after all IIT' kind of thinking make more sense.

And what about say, DCE. Should a Delhi student opt for DCE over a top ranked NIT? What about NSIT vs NIT. And where does a IIIT Hyderabad figure in all this?

I don't know the answers but that kind of detailing must be reflected in the JAM ratings.

Next, is college more important than branch if all one has in mind ultimately is a software career? Two years ago I did advise that but given that more and more colleges are getting good placements, I think that getting a branch of one's choice in a lesser known but 'decent' college may be advisable. We need some inputs on such issues as well.

And yes, like rankings published by American magazines, a department wise ranking would be our goal.

Thirdly, the real fight is in rating the hundreds of state level government and private colleges. This will be done statewise. Because 85% of the seats are filled by state quota and only 15% by AIEEE score.

So for those of you who've raised questions about using 'peer group' ratings, rest assured this is one of the means of gathering data. Not the only one.

We are considering putting the questionnaire online as well. However, that opens up the possibility of students of particular colleges trying to rig the exercise.

Yet, I want this to be an open source project... ideas on how one can achieve that delicate balance are welcome!

79 comments:

  1. guru nanak dev engg. college is in ludhiana. check out their website!!

    key

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  2. GND Engineering college is indeed in ludhiana - please re-check!

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  3. Yes, looks like I confused it with Guru Nanak Dev University which is in Amritsar, correction made. I don't know much abt the college so I should not comment on whether it deserves to be in top 20. But I would think students prefer Punjab Engg College in Chandigarh over it and that does not feature in India Today's list at all.

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  4. >Secondly, from the little I know, UVCE would not be the top ranked engineering college in Karnataka.

    the college is not the top ranked in Karnataka.... if you see the list NIT Suratkal (at position 8),higher than UVCE (at position 16), is also in Karnataka

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  5. > But I would think students prefer Punjab Engg College in Chandigarh over it and that does not feature in India Today's list at all.


    A college being better than others and students choosing one over the other is not the same thing.

    IIT Kanpur is better than IIT Powai (according to both surveys and even among student community discussions)
    but still after the CS is filled in IIT Kanpur, people generally prefer Powai because of the Bombay lifestyle charm. Then there are other perception based on the factors which aren't in the realm of college. I have heard seen a lot of students avoiding NIT Warangal due to Naxalite problem in the area.
    The factors like location (city or rural area, both have their own sets of pros and cons), perception of the people to whom the student interact lead to lot of choices.
    Most of the college students will place their own college very highly so a truly objective opinion is difficult to come by.
    I am a student of NIT Trichy and everyone in my college will question other NITs being placed above Trichy. Mostly people have seen only their own college so they cant actually compare two colleges. Some folks are cynical and others have false beliefs or others are too optimistic about things.

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  6. Rashmi

    Department wise rankings in US make sense for graduate programs since one can measure research output. Such rankings for undergrad programs is to stretch things too far, more so when so few people go out and work in their core engineering area. You might be wasting time and resources on something that is not very important. Just my thoughts.

    Also, I would say both the rankings that you have mentioned, though flawed, capture things broadly. My experience is that for the job market in India, perception is reality. You might want to factor that in.

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  7. Hi!

    No, I didn't come here to give any 'idea' about striking the fine balance.

    Just wanted to tell you that it's a wonderful thing that you are aiming at! And my best wishes are with you.

    And wanted to tell you something. I don't think the retail distribution of JAM is effective in Chennai (I am a fourth year IIT Madras student). Never seen any copy on regular stands!!

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  8. What's wrong in Dataquest-IDC-NASSCOM India's Best T-Schools 2005 Survey and India Today's Tomorrow Survey with Yesterday data.

    IITs have admission based on a over hyped hyper plus 2 syllabus henceforth perfected by coaching institutions of the Kota kind. BITS Pilani has pioneered a unique on line entrance examination BITSAT BITS Admission Test based on SAT GRE model. The survey had no clue.

    The IITs claim of Teacher Student ratio of 1:5 itself requires investigation. Can the nation afford this when the prescription is 1:10. IITs of India celebrate their jubilee in silicon valley USA while BITS Pilani celebrated in a sleepy Rajasthan village.

    Why is that Over 20 board toppers every year opt for BITS Pilani and not IITs? Why is that the girls enrollment in BITS is over 40% which is more than the cumulative enrollment of all IITs put together?

    BITS has a campus wide state of the art computer network and does all top 10 T schools have it? BITS Pilani has a Param 10000 super computer. How many of the top 10 in the dataquest survey has a super computer? Each one of the 4000 plus students in BITS Pilani have internet connection in each of their hostel rooms!! How many of the top 10 T schools have it for their students.

    Like medicos have internship in hospitals BITS Pilani has institutionalized industry university linkages for all its engineering, science and arts degrees for the past over 30 years. This includes companies not only from India but also from USA, France, Germany, Italy, etc. How many institutions that have been put in top 10 in Dataquest survey can claim this?

    Why is that BITS Pilani could put up a campus in Dubai in year 2000 while IITs are still learning Geography of the world? BITS Pilani has a MoU with various IT majors of the country such as Wipro, CTS, HCL, Patni, MBT, Satyam, Intel, Texas Instruments, Honeywell for offering Work Integrated Learning programmes for the HRD needs of the IT industry. How many IITs have done this? How come Nasscom did not take this into account while deciding Industry University linkages!!

    The top ranked IIT Kanpur has itself sponsored its employees to do off campus work integrated learning MS Software Systems degree of BITS Pilani. Is the survey aware of such facts?

    If one computes per student cost of education at BITS and IITs, then that will be a revealing picture as to who drains the nation's funds. Has the survey taken into account the budget outlay of BITS Pilani and the IITs. The achievement index would have gone obviously to BITS Pilani.

    MHRD wants IITs to adopt MIT model, which BITS Pilani perfected for the past 40 years. If the survey had taken Entrepreneurial activity as an index, BITS Pilani would have outdone the IITs.

    No phenomenon is a phenomenon unless it is an observed phenomenon. In its long existence for several decades, BITS Pilani has been observed by enough pundits nationally as well as internationally and concluded as a GREAT phenomenon.

    Look at India Today survey. For admission procedure each IIT ranked has got a different number!!! If India Today does not know that all IITs including Roorkee and BHU IT do by the same JEE, then its time, India Today team join some Kota Bansal coaching or Brilliant Tutorial coaching for journalism and survey ethics.

    According to Dataquest survey, Krishna Institute of Technology has Infrastructure comparable with that of various IITs!!. Even if infrastructure is counted in terms of number of trees and birds, BITS Pilani would have won infrastructure rating hands down.

    If Dataquest and Coffee table magazines like India Today do not have the correct vision, they are most welcome to contact the Optometrists outputted by BITS Pilani as none of the other ranked institutions have ever heard about it.

    When the going gets tough in India Today, it is known that BITS Pilani students get going to the Top..

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  9. finally ... some one is talking about the NITs... the problem with the NITs as compared to IITs and BITS is the weak alumni network that they have. Just imagine the leverage something like PAN-NIT (in the lines of PAN-IIT)wud have...
    Incase of the the NITS, u wud need to consider the following:
    1. 50% home state quota (so NITs in states with more competition like AP,UP,Bihar will have an edge)
    2. Its just been 3.5 years since the RECs were converted to NITs... so these institutes need atleast 2-3 more years to sail into a smooth working system - academica and administrative)
    3.With the huge amounts of funds from the world bank coming under the TEQIP project, infrastucture(atleast the maintainence part) has improved drastically in the past 3 years for many of the NITs.so.. the point i make here is that looking back at old rankings doesn't make sense.
    4.i suggest .... institutes with "campuses"(as in >100 acres) shud b given more weightage in the points for infrastructure than the fancy private institutes with 2-3 aesthetically appealing glass buildings and manicured lawns.
    5.one more suggestion please add a certain weightage for the future plans(mostly short term) of the institute to grow.
    6.one finall but most important suggestion.. please ensure that u make the rankiing on the basis of facts and figures rather than a few interviews of students, alumni and faculty.

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  10. Awesome Buddy!!

    That's a wonderful task you've taken up. Wish that this comes to fruition and populus will benifit out of that.

    One important factor, that Me sees is of significant importance - atleast from my experience - is the presence of a strong alumni in the the college, that would help the college and the students in re-defining/ adjusting their direction.

    Now, donno if it can be quantified to be made in such a way that we can rate colleges on that factor. But might be a thought worth it..

    What do you think??

    Me.

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  11. "We will only be publishing Mumbai, Delhi and possibly Pune ratings."

    A good start. Best of luck.

    ~Pradeep

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  12. Rashmi,
    It would be reall y meaningful if the surveys move outside the best engineering colleges in the country. Only a fraction of the Engineering aspirants make it to these top 20 or so colleges and these colleges are in the top 20 coz they ve been around for some decades now..

    I dont question the rational of trying to rate the best engineering colleges in the country.. but, wat would be more meaningful is to move beyond these colleges and look at colleges started in the past 10 15 years.. placements have been good at most of these colleges.. agreed they may never scale up to the top 20, but, it would sure be a meaningful exercise to move out of these colleges and rank the not so famous , yet doing quite well colleges..!!
    looking forward to the results from JAM.. and like pointed out, I ve never seen a copy of JAM in b'lore..!! any reasons??

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  13. \\Thirdly, the real fight is in rating the hundreds of state level government and private colleges.

    {fight} was nostalgic.


    I would suggest creating clusters of similar types of colleges on a couple of obvious parameters like entrance test, infrastructure, average salaries in placements and may be along location etc. And publishing different ratings loaded on different parameters.

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  14. I would like to give a suggestion here - You might want to use grades instead of ranking

    Frankly I dont think ranks make much sense for such a large number, and also parameters cant be objective. An institute which scores 73.6 is ranked 9th and 73 ranked 10th - does 73 or 73.6 really makes a difference?

    Once you arrive on grades, you may compare colleges in a grade. No I dont mean ranking within the grade, but something which tell students that overall these colleges are equally good, but if you have inclination towards research, or you prefer extracurrics, or you are computer geek, or.....then this is the one for you in this grade.

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  15. IIIT Hyderabad and ISB never participated in India Today's survey because of their stupid team.

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  16. Nice work... and better get JAM closer to the public.... JAM will surely strike a chord with the youth down south and east just like it has in Mumbai Pune and Delhi. People like me have never seen a JAM copy but are regular visitors to the jammag site.

    Do we need one more ranking index to know which college is the best??? What you are aiming to do is laudable and my gut feeling is that this ploy of yours adds up as a comprehensive way of getting more publicity and leverage to your JAM magazine. Hope you dont solely focus on the publicity part and do something true for the confused 12th pass outs.

    I would not recommend the usage of an online questionnaire. Everyone is inclined towards seeing their college at the top..... Just like CAMELPOST can't stop speaking of all the noble virtues of BITS-Pilani..... something I am sure he is connected with. This isn't a forum for discussing which college ought to be ranked no. 1 .... but this is to decide an effective system for ranking colleges. Just goin talking eons and eons about BITS doesnt truly make it no.1 nor does it make IITS the villain. Each institute has its own unique strong points and weaknesses. Please do make it a point to find out all these.

    Online 'rigging' will only pilfer and dilute your rankings.... just like the college patriotic "camelpost" who just cannot see BITS pilani limping in the rankings....

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  17. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  18. Though not to deviate from the top college study, after all the rankings year after year students go by the order in which their seniors went. Another big weight variable is parent's and relative's opinion. Unless something big happens, like 9/11, which formulated many a laity's opinion that Computer Science is done forever and much before that, Java is over, students don't change their preferences.
    So along with college ranking if you can provide a brief summary of the kinds of courses(streams) available. This can include the kinds of subjects one would be taking up and the kinds of job profiles they would be getting into.( A friend of mine did his masters in oceanology and is now getting into a s/w company, he'll be coding in Java soon!!!!) And of much help would be a trailer on unconventional courses such as Oceanology, Aeronautical Engg, Marine, Mining etc. Thats for people dreaming to be Kalpana Chawla.

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  19. You may have already considered this one, but here's a suggestion: you can have something where people can enter an e-mail address and then a link is sent to that e-mail. The link is dynamically generated (different for each e-mail) and can be used only once. Not sure if this makes it open-source but you won't have to reply to so many e-mails.

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  20. India Today team came to IIIT Hyderabad one evening...talked to some people out here...took some feedback forms..marked some data...and in end "IN A HURRY FORGOT ALL THE DATA FORMS AND THEIR MARKINGS IN IIIT ITSELF"

    So much for their data collection...

    We may have had 4 google selections, 1 Microsoft Research selections and some real good placements stats this year but how does this matter??

    Like Times of India, India Today has become a joke...Lets all laugh :-)

    -Vishal Dwivedi
    MS by research Student IIIT Hyderabad.

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  21. Rashmi,

    A key parameter should be how much of the seats are filled by quotas.

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  22. Rankings in most of the magazines are baseless and any college can get a Top 10 ranking by paying an appropriate amount. The same holds true even for B-School rankings.

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  23. Rashmi, I hope that your rankings dont look like the India Todays. That is, the top 20 dominated by NITs and IITs. That is for granted, they are the best. No questions about that. But what about other colleges.

    What really would help a lot is how colleges like SPCE Andheri, Fr Rodrigues, TSEC, VESIT, the Navi Mumbai colleges(RAIT, etc), MIT Pune, VIT pune, DYPatil Pune, etc compare. The second rung colleges, I mean. Many students are unable to make up their minds on these.

    It doesnt make much difference (atleast for us average guys) whether someone lands up into IIT Mumbai or Kanpur. Or in IIM Bangalore or IIM Amdavad for that matter. But the rankings of second rung colleges isnt that clear.

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  24. tiet, patiala is not dat bad u think. bits pilani no doubt should come above it but tiet is also a prestigious coll. it has 97-98% placements. its not cent percent coz of fact der r many sponsered candidates here who do not wish to take up job.

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  25. rashmi mam, u talk about iit,u talk about bits and nit's but u always forget about itbhu. please mention it's name also if u think it is also a top college(atleast comes in top 8).if u don't, sorry for it.

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  26. Back when IDC-Dataquest came out with its sensational rankings by throwing BITS Pilani out of its top 10 a team from BITS went and met the IDC team to discuss the methodology.
    Now any ranking system is only as good as its parameters. I can come out with a ranking of top engineering colleges based on the size of the football grounds but that wouldn't serve my purpose would it?
    Here are the few flaws in the IDC parameters (I am not sure India Today even has parameters ;-) )

    Various parameters for the survey were:
    HR perception - weigthage - 25%
    Placements - weigthage - 40%
    Industry Interface -10%
    Intellectual Capital - 15%
    Infrastructure - 10%

    HR Perception:
    Over here, the opinion has been sought only from
    IT companies. BITS of course scored well in this parameter but this raises an important question as to what about core technical firms? Does Dataquest believe an engineering college can be judged only by the number of people it places in Infy??

    Placements:
    BITS scored badly here again. Extremely surprising given that BITS placements are definitely among the best in the country so what went wrong???

    IDC rates placements on 2 metrics- 1.No of companies/student, 2.Average salary.
    Now in a college like BITS which has over 900 undergrad students/batch with only 450 odd doing core engineering these parameters fail to do justice. To compare BITS with say an NSIT/DCE one has to compare only on the basis of departments handled in both the colleges. BITS has 50 odd pharma graduates, MMS around 50, 6 different science degrees. apart from the regular engineering disciplines. Any ranking system has to address this fundemental dichotomy before proceeding to compare.

    Industry Interface
    BITS scores poorly on industry interface, which is totally surprising. BITS has a renowned Practice school program wherein every student spends one-two semesters in an orgainsation. The program spans around the entire globe and the stipend s average around 15000/month. This program is also effectively a third round of placements with almost every student receiving a job offer during PS. Every major firm in India, figures in this list and this alone should have helped BITS top this parameter. Also the BITS Distance learning programs are definitely the best ones in the market. This survey however totally fails to capture these points under the title "Industry Interface"
    Ratherthe industry interface is judged based only on 2 factors: 1.no. ofindustry wide seminars, 2.number of research papers.
    These are hardly the points where industry interface comes up. Worst part is BITS lacks here big time. Then again, the survey doesn't capture the qualitative aspect of research or seminars. A research paper is a research paper,
    does not matter if it was published in the tech magazine of Jhumri Talaiyya university.!!

    BITS lacking in infrastructure was the biggest surprise. Given
    that, Dataquest themselves had rated BITS campus as the best networked
    college last year, it came as a huge shock to see BITS at no. 30 in
    the infra category. Then again, there is a problem in reporting the
    numbers. The number of computers available for students has been
    reported as 600. With more than 3500 students, the student computer
    ratio comes down to one-sixth. Some colleges have reported more than one computer per student.
    It is remarkable to see IDC capturing infrastruture purely on the basis of no of computers/student. Given the campus wide Neuron network, including Wifi hotspots,the 100 crore VLSI Oyster lab (one of its kind) The Biotech lab second only to IISC in India one would have expected BITS to score heavily but apparently only no of computers count for infrastructure!!

    I am a BITSian and I believe BITS has still got to work to do on its PR front and branding. That however does not mean it can be ranked lower than younger regional colleges. The key word being "regional".

    Also anyone here heard of BITSAT, the first of its kind in India? If only an IIT had done it we'd have NDTV screaming .Someone please help BITS with its PR!

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  27. everytime i see these rankings i feel they are biased towards certain parameters.

    as a past student of roorkee it felt strange to see bitsP and roorkee way below MNIT allahabad... but i guess things change.

    i think best way would be to get some kinda system which is more transparent and everyone is able to access and see how any institute is doing...

    i think the institutes that figure in these ratings should come together and form a system themselves which frees them from the bias or neglect of these mediahouses...

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  28. Indian orthodox Brahmins & their slaves Present All Over Indian System Will Never Allow the Development of the Rest Indians i.e OBC/SC/ST/Rest Whose Population Is Over 85% of India - Come What May ! B/c Brahmins/their Slaves -- Don't Even Consider OBC/SC/ST/ REST INDIANS - Humans !So ------:---

    The Permanent Solution I Think Is that :- Divide India Into Small Nations On Caste Lines, E.g. One Country For Brahmins, One for Upper Castes, One for OBC/SC/ST/ Rest -- On the Basis of Population of the Caste. Every Caste Will Have 100% Reservation In their Respective Country -- So No Fighting Any More & All Will Develop. A Non Indian Commission of United Nations should be Formed Under ChairManShip of It's Chief Koffi Anan --- to Divid India, to Maintain Impartiality, In Light of Historical Facts of Over 3000yrs, With No India In High Power Commission to Avoid Partiality. B/c In Present India Brahmins & Upper Castes Manage to Corners All Resources Meant for All Indians (OBC/SC/ST/REST INDIANS)- that's Why Brahmins/Upper Castes are Happy In Present India. OBC/SC/ST/Rest are Not Socially & Educationally Backward By - Choice - BUT - B/c Brahmins & their Slaves In Power have Kept them So - By Force & Conspiracy Since Over 3000yrs Particularly 1947 Onwards !

    ----- Let's Face the India's Ground Level Realities/Truths the Way they Are & Go For the Final Solution that Is Once & For All !!!

    --- So Rashmi Bansal What's Your Reaction ???

    --- Non-Brahman Hindu ! By For NOW !!!!!!!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  29. has India Today forgotten about NIT Kurukshetra and IIIT's

    ReplyDelete
  30. Indian orthodox Brahmins & their Upper Caste slaves Present All Over Indian System Will Never Allow the Development of the Rest Indians i.e OBC/SC/ST/Rest Whose Population Is Over 85% of India - Come What May ! B/c Brahmins/their Slaves -- Don't Even Consider OBC/SC/ST/ REST INDIANS - Humans ! So :------

    The Permanent Solution I Think Is that :- Divide India Into Small Nations On Caste Lines, E.g. One Country For Brahmins, One for Upper Castes, One for OBC/SC/ST/ Rest -- On the Basis of Population of the Caste. Every Caste Will Have 100% Reservation In their Respective Country -- So No Fighting Any More & All Will Develop. A Non Indian High Power Commission of United Nations should be Formed Under ChairManShip of It's Chief Koffi Anan --- to Divid India Into Small Nations on Caste Lines , & to Maintain Impartiality, In Light of Historical Facts of Over 3000yrs, With No India In High Power Commission to Avoid Partiality. B/c In Present India Brahmins & Upper Castes Manage to Corners All Resources Meant for All Indians (OBC/SC/ST/REST INDIANS)- that's Why Brahmins/Upper Castes are Happy In Present India. OBC/SC/ST/Rest are Not Socially & Educationally Backward By - Choice - BUT - B/c Brahmins & their Slaves In Power have Kept them So - By Force & Conspiracy Since Over 3000yrs Particularly 1947 Onwards !

    ----- Let's Face the India's Ground Level Realities/Truths the Way they Are & Go For the Final Solution that Is Once & For All !!!

    --- So Rashmi Bansal & Rest People Who are Regular on this Blog, What's Your Reaction ???

    --- Non-Brahman Hindu ! SEE My Blog = www.zanjeer.blogspot.com TO know Why I'm Forced to Say So ! By For NOW !!!

    ReplyDelete
  31. hey what about college of engineering,guindy. Do you think that it was not eligible for being a top college. Remember, it's the oldest engineering college in asia established on 1794. after that only, IIT-roorkee (1847) comes.

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  32. A lot of BITSians here...

    BITS is a highly overrated college. Before BITSAT, it had the worst admission procedure for a college anywhere in india.Students from andhra and tn virtually ruled the place bcoz their boards were really free in giving marks. BITS students are making a hue and cry over rankings now, whilst earlier they had no problems while their college was ranked high.

    BITS students think only their college has 450 core companies coming in for placements. It is wrong. I am from NIT warangal and i can tell you that it isn't without reason that we are ranked 4th in india on placements. All top rung colleges have 100% placement, but it isn't that what matters, but the quality of the placement. The avg salary was above 4 lakhs at our college and it wasn't a joke.

    BITS is where it is only because of its funding. If NITs had the same sort of funding, they would be much better of. Maybe BITSAT will be better off..bt i still think it will take time before bits has the kind of students iits, nits and iiits have.

    NIT Warangal, Trichy n Surathkal are almost at par. But Warangal suffers due to its location ie.naxalite scares etc etc. and thus suffers a lot on perception......

    Also the fact that BITS is able to establish BITS in dubai/goa isn't a big deal. IITs n NITs weren't created to improve the educational standards abroad. And besides the admission procedure is extremely flawed and it is NOT BASED ON MERIT.

    If JAM is going to make rankings it should create separate rankings for colleges which have a state entrance n those which have an all india entrance.

    I am not saying that india today rankings n dataquest rankings are the best, but the fact that bits pilani is goin down in the rankings just goes to show that other colleges are improving and BITS can't continue to survive o mere hype...remember this sudden rise of NITs is just a couple of years after we received deemed university status..give us a few more years n it will be even better.

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  33. My dear Aditya, show me one place where I have bad mouthed IITs or NITs. All that I drove was the arbit acts of AICTE and how it was affecting deemed universities. If in that process the good things about BITS had emerged, it only amounted to conclude that it is possible for a deemed university to achieve excellence despite the watch dog rather the barking dog aicte.

    Even in the case of Dataquest or India Today, I only questioned the credibility of the survey parameters rather than who was listed 123. When all IITs have admission by JEE how on earth India Today survey is giving different values for admission criteria to different IITS? If you digested this point of mine, then you are eligible for an award from Readers Digest. Surprising that no body dissected this guffa of India Today.

    If after reading this comment of mine, your heart aches, please visit Madras Medical Mission Chennai with whom BITS Pilani has a collaboartion for Physician Assistant degree program. You can see that in this comment also good things about BITS has emerged and nothing to feel bad about it. Just relax. If I need any therapy, do not worry, I will not ask for your advise for sure.

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  34. Hey Im from BITS Pilani Goa Campus and I dont need to justify that the BITS brand still commands a lot of respect everywhere.If u wanna compare the quality of students in NIT's and BITS come here and see.I myself cleared the JEE and a rank beyond 2500 has absolutely no use in the JEE.BITS takes only freshers or at the most 1 yr dropouts(with a diff. marking scheme) as compared to IIT's and NIT's where ppl spending 2-3 yrs get thru.Are they better than us?I dont think so.Even in the Goa campus(which isnt supposed to b good) JEE clearers fill the engg streams and Pilani main campus is even better.Infrastructure,Faculty ,industry interface aernt even an issue at BITS.Well if u still cant decide where some of the best students come in then you need some serious introspection.

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  35. This is for CAMELPOST:
    First of all, BITS is a great institute. no doubt about that. They provide state of the art computing facility and maintain a really pleasant campus which is great. What I like most about BITS is their internship program and I think IITs can learn from there.
    But, there are many more things which make IITs the best. I know about IIT-Bombay so I will compare BITS to IITB.(I know a few things abt BITS too in the process of doing some research as my sis is goint to college this year). First, the computing facility: IITB too has internet connectivity in every room and long before BITS had. But my point is, it does not matter much. A private Engg. college in Jaipur has wireless connectivity on its campus. Do u think it should be in top10. Two very important parameters are faculty and students quality. Go to BITS website and find out how many of the faculty are PhD and from where. Compare that to IITB's. I do not know what will happen in future but you would agree that IITs still get the best students in country, thanks to JEE. By the way, the entrance test administering procedure(not the quality of test itself) of BITS is very good. IITs need to think in this area. You asked why do board toppers opt for BITS and not IIT. Because, they get admission to BITS directly without any test. And, it is not necessary that a board topper would clear JEE. Why do IITs do not have campus abroad? good question. IITs are govt. institutions and this has both advantages and disadvantages and one of the disadvantage being that big decisions like this(provided an IIT wants to setup a campus abroad)need govt. approval. Anyway, MIT doesn't have any campus abroad; so does that make it any worse than BITS. Coming to research facilities: Producing Computer and IT engineers is easy. But to produce a good Physicist or a good Materials Scientist requires resources. I will give you one example. IITB has 2 TEMs; one of them is cryo-TEM(transmission electon microscope). A rough cost of one TEM is 1.5million US dollars and operating cost is about $150 per hour. This is just one example. Go to IITB website, you will find more; then compare it with BITS. The research facilities at IITs are among the best in the world. And I am not claiming it from some coffee table magazine article. I am making this claim after comparing facilities at materials sc. dept. at IITB and UPenn(one of the best-among top 15-materials research dept.in the world). I have had personal experience at both these institutes. The only reason research output at IITs is much lower than US counterparts is lack of sponsored projects from Indian industry and Govt. I can't blame govt. or industry for that because it largely depends on the economy of India. now the Library; I think you can compare it by yourself. The point of all these comparison is that, it is very easy to make the campus wireless and wire every room but it is a totally different ballgame to have state-of-the-art research facilities in basic sciences, to subscribe almost all important and very expensive research journals and to attract and maintain an outstanding faculty. Now for MoUs. IITB has MoUs with many top universities(may be not as many with IT firms). By the way IITB has two Nobel Laureates as its visiting faculty. Now for the placement. Going by the data, I am sure that BITS has higher percentage placement than IITB but I will tell you the reason. When you apply for any software company(IBM, Infosys etc.) in IITB, and your academic record is good, the very first interview question you get is;'you can easily get a good PhD offer in US, why do u wanna work for us; have you taken GRE' Now if you tell them that u have taken GRE, then unless you do a very superb explaining, you can be sure not to get that job. I myself did not get in IBM because I told them my GRE score. next time I denied having taken the GRE and got the job. Anyways, I finally accepted a PhD offer. Another example: Infosys usually hires about a 100 students from a reputed institute. now, in my time when it bame to IITB the salary being offered was not good. So, a ridiculously low number of students opted for interviews. Now, the Infosys people got angry and refused to conduct interview for such a low number of students. So, nobody got placed in Infy that year. Btw, I had opted for Infy interview as I needed a safety job.
    Finally you can compare the number of students from BITS and an IIT who get PhD offers from top US universities.
    Again, BITS is good and is improving every year but it has still a long way to go to be as good as IIT. But, given the govt.'s interference with the autonomy and its quota policy which is likely to extend to faculty also in the future, this bridge between BITS and IITs won't take long to cross.
    -DC

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  36. ALLAHABD is Ranked better than IIT ROORKE and BITS ..it is bcoz that the team visited our campus found that true resarch work is being done in our college and in many areas it Out shines differnt college ..students here work with complete diligence and are having the spirit to do any thing for the Nation.And truth can't be hided!... Do u find this anywhere....

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  37. Let DC know that Nobel Lauerates are delivering lectures for BITS Pilani MS Consciousness Studies.

    Top 100 Engineering Colleges In India : Magazine Outlook
    A recent flurry of private institutes has helped improve the scene, especially in south India.
    BITS Pilani ranked sixth position.

    India Today should have atleast had the decency to write in their holy survey that BITS Pilani did not participate in the say let us all call it Rat Race!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  38. camelpost has overhyped BITS Pilani which is not worth of it. IIT is still a brand name, anyone who is preparing for engineering will know the difference.
    I myself have cleared JEE and got a low rank. I have a good rank in AIEEE and getting Elec Engg there but i'll opt for IIT although with not some famous branch

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  39. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  40. BITS Pilani sets the Benchmark for Industry University Collaborations: While countless seminars, workshops, conferences and symposia for years have
    paid lip service to fostering university - industry linkages, BITS Pilani has gone way ahead of others in successfully implementing the same in India Today.
    India News and Press Releases - http://www.indiaprwire.com/

    ReplyDelete
  41. You guys keep talking about NITs, IITs, BITS-Pilani... what you forget is that the best NIT is DCE (it is not an NIT, but it's only the nomenclature which is different)...
    You come to this college and see what % of students here are JEE qualified with ranks around 2500 and have come to DCE... potential IITians? So, there is your student quality... and I can tell you there isn't much difference between a 500 and a 2500 ranker on a given day...
    People don't see beyond IIT.. IIT is good, no doubt but among the top 10 - IITs, BITS-Pilani, DCE, NIT-Sur, Trichy, Warangal, IIIT-A/H, IT-BHU, PEC, NSIT should figure. Among these, colleges may take up different positions but must remain in the top 20 only... because they are the best...

    You regional colleges can't beat DCE. AIEEE <500 rankers choose DCE over good branches at IIT-Kh/Roorkee/Guwahati... what do you say to that?

    DCE people forget for the simple reason that IITs are 7, so unforgettable, NITs are so many... but DCE is ONE college. In PR, DCE holds reputation jus next to BITS/IIT...

    I, myself have left IIT for the reason that I didn't get my choice subject. So, intellectual capital, if you give IITs 20/20 then DCE can't go less than 18/20. You can come to our college and intervien 500 students. You will know yourself. There is a thin line in IIT/no-IIT, so over-bloated egod IITians should keep shut on this. Some one takes a Paper-Pulp and someone takes a DCE-COE... the former calls himself a MIGHTY IITian... this is just foolish...

    Lastly, people of India are dumb... for them engineering = IIT... IIT is good, but has only 20% of the total talent availible...

    Also, ow can you forget Anna Univ, Jadavpur Univ., NSIT when you are giving ranks?????

    ReplyDelete
  42. And Pankaj, you are a fool who hs screwed up his career by taking some lame course at IIT.... the reputation that IIT has is not because of the down trodder M.Sc branches it has.... it is the major branches...

    ReplyDelete
  43. 20 percent of Tomorrow's Leaders Today from BITS Pilani:
    By continuing to bag the coveted Aditya Birla Scholarships year after year, BITSians have time and again proved that they do not shirk from putting their best foot forward to march out boldly and seize the opportunities to face the challenges head on.

    For more details, please Visit:
    http://www.indiaprwire.com/pressrelease/education/20061008721.htm

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  44. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  45. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  46. This is to inform u all something abt the bogus rankings of engg. colleges published by INDIA TODAY(2006) ..................a college named UVCE Bangalore was given an all india rank of 16 even after not being even among top 5 colleges in karnataka! I being a student student in this state know everything abt the colleges................some of the better ranked colleges than UVCE are.........NIT K ,Surathkal,RVCE ,PESIT ,MSRIT,BIT,BMS in Bangalore,SIT Tumkur,SJCE Mysore,MIT Manipal.......so a college which does not find its place among top institutions in karnataka ....how can it be given an a.i.r 16?........the college has pathetic infrastructure n is not at all a prefered choice of the top rankers of CET,Karnataka!!!

    ReplyDelete
  47. Anonymous3:47 PM

    to quote...iits have THE best students in the country ...and i do agree ...to be frank IITS are what they are because of their students and their funds ..with all the funds flowing down their coffers they have the means to set up the best campuses in the country .
    Firstly i am from BITS-Pilani . I believe they stand in the young minds as the next choice to IIT..and rightly so . The curriculum is well planned to have a continuous evaluation ...which puts even more pressure on the average BITSIAN than the IITs ..throughout the year(owing to a larger number of tests ) .
    Now please take into account the fact that ..all the institutes u have mentioned so far have been far more accessible than BITS-Pilani . I believe everyone overlooks its locational disadvantage which prevents it from becoming even better . BITS is set in the middle of a village 5 hours away from Delhi and Jaipur (the first traces of so called Oppurtunities and land of educated civilizations) . We dont have ample oppurtunity to participate in competitions and seminars from internationally known persona as the delhi or mumbai colleges . Yet BITS is in the top.
    Secondly , incase people have been unaware of the recent overwhelming development in the coaching sectors. Do people mean to say that only people from Delhi and Kota and Hyderabad are the intelligent ones in the whole of India ..or is it because there arent enough good facilites in the other parts of the country. If u mark a student as the best based on hours of inhuman coaching and absolutely impractical knowledge , even sometimes clear lack of intelligence ,then sure there cannot be anyone anywhere close to the IITs . However , if we take MIT as our role model , please do some research as to on what basis do they take the best intellect in the world. Their selection methodology is perfect as they do really choose the most intelligent minds.So please dont categorize students of IIT as the best ...because from personal experience and contact with some of the people who have cleared IIT(maybe not with a good enough rank) , I have realized that when they are let free to study themselves and compete based on personal merit alone..they are suffering immensely , even in low-key institutions . I hope people do appreciate BITSAT because the perfection with which they execute such a unique set of exams is remarkable indeed. And its just not physics chemistry maths , but logic and english . If we need to progress we need to learn that we have to take up English inorder to be declared "smart" by our foreign counterparts . Please mark I am not saying BITSAT is the ideal exam , because people with lots of coaching can still oust people with not so proper grooming in this exam , but the ratio is less . However its not anywhere close to being the perfect entrance exam.
    As for the ranking of India Today and Dataquest , I think they do not really know about the working of the institutes but rather go by impressions and a handpicked group of selectors whose decisions somehow seem whimsical to me. Incase you havent noticed institutes gain and fall so much in one year! Atleast to me its not plausible enough ! Dont know about you people though .

    ReplyDelete
  48. anybody care to note that theres no college called NIT suratkal? there's NITK surathkal however. people who cant even get the name of a college right have no business conducting 'surveys'
    Maybe this is just a Gaurav Sabnis like stunt (remember iipm?)to grab (eye)balls :)

    ReplyDelete
  49. all people look here ...............Many reputed sources, including the UNESCO Science Report 2005 (ISBN 92-3-103967-9) make use of Asiaweek magazine's latest rankings of science and technology schools in the Asia-Pacific region, 2000. According to this ranking, BITS Pilani was ranked in the Top 20 in Asia (overall), and in the Top 5 in Asia in terms of 'Student Selectivity'.


    Now if u have any other question about the supremecy of BITS ..........thn

    BITS Pilani was also the only Indian university to be ranked in the Top 20 Wired organisations of Asia by Business Today (January 18, 2004 issue).



    if u have any doubt.....see this
    The Institute has strong alliances with various Indian/foreign universities/industries for exchange of students/faculty, Distance Learning Programs, etc. A small list of colleges is given below:

    1.MIT, Boston,
    2.University of Maryland,
    3.University of Otago,
    4.University of Southern California,
    5.Kathmandu university
    6.University of Oklahoma,
    7.Victoria University,
    8.Kansas State University,
    9.Arizona State University,
    10.University of New South Wales,
    11.Purdue University,
    and many more.




    Now i think that u have no doubt................BY A BITSIAN.....

    ReplyDelete
  50. This goes to all of you, especially rashmi.

    All you people ever think about is IITs, and software, and placements, and all that bullshit..
    Why doesn't anyone bother about the college life? The last four years of independence-with-no-responsibility. I agree that IITs are definitely extremely good, and it's worth sacrificing a bit of the fun in our lives to study there. But places like NIT Trichy, Warangal, etc. Life's horrid there. Strict attendance rules, assignment submissions, heavy penalties and punishments. God, who'd want to live there at all?! Only those who go to college everyday, sit at the first bench, jot down every word the profs say, get back home/to the hostel and dig themselves into books/assigments.. What about the middle crowd where I belong? Middle in the sense: we're good enough to manage to get through the college, but that's quite about it. We don't want 1lakh a month jobs.. Just want to enjoy these few years remaining, then get a job that doesn't keep us too busy, and pays us well enough.. I'd really suggest you to find out a bit about Jadavpur University, how reputed it is, among the professors, etc, and what life is like there.

    ReplyDelete
  51. what is thex expected cut- off for Thapar institute of technology from AIEEE 2007.. any clue?

    ReplyDelete
  52. I agree with Rashmi that these rankings are flawed and What can be a better proof of this than the absence of PEC,chandigarh whereas UVSE, blr etc are given much higher rating!!

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  53. i think sit tumkur(karnataka) should be ranked among top 50 engg colleges of india...it is one of the oldest colleges of india established in 1963 grt infrastructure grt placement better than many govt engg colleges of india

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  54. <
    i wanna say that a college is not worth a good ranking because of its hardware but because of its sofware(i.e. the i.Q. of its students).any ranking which does not take into account the students studying in the institute can not claim to give a good ranking.Neither India today nor Datquest have done that .Therefore none of these can claim to have tested all institutes perfectly.Ultimately i would say that its not not only college for the student but also student for college.>

    ReplyDelete
  55. NSit placement is awesome no other college can even come except IIT

    you know the average placement for NSIT(COE)--7.2 lacks p.a.
    DCE(COE)---4.2 lacks p.a
    IIT DElhi(coe)----8.9 lacks P.A.

    i am a student who has studied in both coll. thats why i know this

    for 6 months i was in DCE then my branch got upgraded NSIT

    so now you know why nsit is 10

    ReplyDelete
  56. hi

    u have a taken up a gigantic task...
    all the best

    you may wanna consider the following too...

    1)give a weightage to the festivals organized by the college (technical and non technical) as they shout out the organizational skill set of the students

    btw:
    BITS is the "ONLY" college in INDIA which has absolutely no reservation.
    can u freaking believe that!!!...

    chc

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  57. This is to sam the fool who said that
    the admission procedure in BITS is extremely flawed and is not based on merit.Dude on what basis did you say this?Please
    take note that admission to BITS is based on the online entrance test BITSAT and students are admitted purely based on their test score and minimum percentage requirements in maths,physics and chemistry subjects of +2.Also note that BITS doesn't provide reservations for candidates like that of IITs and NITs thereby ensuring no scope for it's admission being flawed.

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  58. I am from BITS-Goa, kindly put my college at the bottom of whatever rankings you come up with. It will be justified....
    Also, the fact that bitsians seem to be taking unbridled pride in the fact that we are the only college which has no reservation policy is shameful...

    ReplyDelete
  59. Listen CAMELPOST...
    I am from BITS GOA...I appreciate that u like our college but doesn't mean that u will go on bragging n blabbering about that....havn't u heard Äctions speak louder than words"...so stop speaking...do something....infact after reading ur posts n some stupid comments i feel against BITS,,,,plzzzzz for God's sake STOP...be at peace..

    ReplyDelete
  60. n yes...i agree wid chatiu..u should take into account atleast the techfest....as far as resv r concerned...BITS is private inst so has the option of not having resv...but IIT's n NIT's r FORCED to have reservrd seats....nothin they can do anythin about...lets not put it against them but against the govt which is adamant on reservations...

    ReplyDelete
  61. I am working as a placement officer in one of the private engineering college.
    I feel the concept of publishing a list of top ranked colleges across india could be biased and should be done away with, if the list is biased than unknowingly we are spoiling the career of young students.
    The education industry is growing with leaps and bound, that does not mean that we should forget the social responsibility attached with the education industry.
    Students consider their tecahers as mentors and have full faith in them. The students will not be able to carry this legacy further, if social responsibility fades in the education industry.
    The list published or ranks awarded to the colleges should not become marketing tools for the colleges or managements as the students are really putting their sincere efforts in completing their courses and they should not be left deprived of any opportunity which could come their way.

    ReplyDelete
  62. Will u plz tell me the Ranking status of NIT Hamirpur (Himachal Pradesh)

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  63. What is the rank of the different engineering collages of Himachal Pradesh?

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