Mr Veerappa Moila is thinking, wah maine kya teer maara... What a cool and intensely topical analogy I've come up with to justify OBC reservations: In a note circulated during the committee’s meetings, the implementation of the proposed quota system is compared to the zonal representation practised by soccer’s governing body, FIFA.
"If one were to go by the FIFA world-ranking, the top 32 teams would have qualified for the World Cup.
However, FIFA has established a qualifying format based on reservation that enables nations from all continents to play at the highest level," Moily told TOI...
Sounds good at first hearing but let's see what would happen, if FIFA were to implement quotas following recommendations of the Mandal Commission...
"An expert committee has noted that in the last 76 years, India has not been represented in the finals of the FIFA World Cup. This is a gross injustice considering that we represent 16.66% of the world population.
Europe's 47 countries with a population of just 726 million (12.1% of world population) corner an astounding 14 of the 32 coveted berths (43.75%). Moreover the 'brahmanical' South Americans - with around 6% of the world population get 15.6% of the berths in World Cup finals.
What's more, we are a country where football has been systematically and historically discriminated against by higher caste sports - namely cricket.
India should therefore be granted a reserved seat in the FIFA World Cup. Even if Japan defeats us 7-0, the fact that we are a backward football nation should be taken into account and we must be given our due.
In case people feel this will lower the standard of the tournament, and start protesting, the solution is to increase the number of berths in the World Cup finals from 32 to 48. This way merit need not suffer.
India should also get an automatic berth upto the quarter finals, taking into account it is a FBC (Football Backward Country). Even if this means we get beaten 29-0 by Brazil, it will be a great step forward for football and backward country rights.
After all, what is merit - it is countries who have football academies which groom talented young people. Obviously, we who have no such 'coaching' cannot compete with them..."
OK, I can go on and on but you get the picture.
The right way for India to qualify is to raise its standards in football, then compete against Asian nations in qualifiers, win those matches and make it to the finals. Where again we must compete against others on a level playing field.
I mean, sure, over the years rules have been changed - the original 16 country finals was modified to 24 countries in 1982 and then 32 in 1998. Essentially to allow more teams from Africa, Asia and North America to take part.
However, population is not the criteria for the 'quotas'. And countries must compete keenly with each other in regionals and finals. No one gets extra penalty kicks for being 'weak' but deserving. Rules of the game remain same for all.
So if we are to follow the FIFA model, there can't be reservation at post-graduate level.
And of course my arguments aren't perfect. Feel free to pick holes... but Mr Moily, remember you can't use an analogy selectively - where it suits you. And coolly wriggle out where it doesn't.
Great post..completely tears apart the flawed analogy of Mr Moily. Just when i was wondering why we weren't hearing anything against the Mr Moily's misplaced logic comes this post which puts the issue into perspective.. u cant dispute the rationale no matter how cynical it may sound!
ReplyDeleted only thing left was to show dat man the middle finger..!! great piece rashmi..!!
ReplyDeleteThough,Mr Moily has successfully drawn out a good analogy,here is what I have to say :-)
ReplyDeleteMr Moily quotes :-
"The soccer World Cup selection goes to show that when weaker sections are given equal opportunity and access as other sections of the society, hidden talent emerges. It also broadens talent base and facilitates diversity."
Going by his first statement that weakers sections are given equal opportunity,then giving the eng. or medical aspirants(for eg) an entry into the best coaching institutes might sound sensible (Infact this was something that IITs and Rookee were already doing),but making it a 'turkey shoot' for the 'reserved' category to enter such reputed instituions is ridiculous.
"This qualifying format has provided African, Asian and other nations with limited soccer
infrastructure and resources the opportunity to get exposure to the World Cup.
Opportuinty,fine,but at whose's cost ? Whenever there are opportuinities given to someone,
the first things looked at is the cost associated to it.Now you can't allow your kid
to play with you 'Rado' Watch,can you ? If they are so keen,on letting the hidden talent emerge,why not give some novice cardiologists a try at their heart,or some 'not so good'
anesthesiologist 'a try' at giving them some anaesthesia that they might feel should be sufficient,
but the politician wakes up in the middle of the operation to discover that the anaesthesia was
just short by 1 hour.....
So,my advice to them :- Give as much reservation as you want,but not at the community's cost.
Well,even if they advocate all this,let them,and let the things proceed as they are,because
even if you allow such things,it is not going to stay for too long.How many years do you
think the companies abroad are going to outsource their work if such a trend continues...
If not India,china...and now even singapore is coming up,there are too many in the race.....
Hahaha.. LOLzzz..
ReplyDeleteNice one Rashmi. A fully hilarious post from you after a long time.
(I mean, most of your posts have humour interspersed with serious stuff, this one was cool ).
Keep em coming. :)
On a serious note, the bright students of India have no option but to immigrate, and reverse the reverse-brain-drain.
ReplyDeleteIf politicos think reservations is the way, fine enough. Ok with reservations, but 50% (plus many states have quotas for defense, physically challenged and girls at 5% each) is wayyy toooo much. Merit does not mean caste discrimination, it means anyone regardless of caste will be given preference if they prove their worth.
I had guys with 50% marks in 12th as my classmates in engg, while the General category guys like us had to score atleast 85% plus to get there. Do I need to tell you the number of years they took to complete their degree? But now of course things are set to change again, with reservations in industries. They will now have more than half the jobs across public and private industry with them just managing to pass while we slogged to get BE first class.
Rashmi, the toxic singh has now come up with resv for muslims and christians. Your take please? I suppose we ll be left with hardly 30%, in college as well as in industry.
Ok with reservations, but 50% (plus many states have quotas for defense, physically challenged and girls at 5% each)
ReplyDeleteOk, dont get me wrong here. I mean that "caste based quota is bad", and quota for defense and physically challenged is justified.
Rashmi,
ReplyDeleteJust recd the latest issue of Businessworld [26/June/06].
In its book review section, it discusses the case of reservations at IVY league college.
The relevant book is:
The Chosen By Jerome Karabel
I'm sorry but your post makes no sense. For a bit I thought maybe you're arguing for a WC berth based on population, but that's not it.
ReplyDeleteThe FIFA system makes no sense either, but it does seem more indicative of reservations. Seriously, somebody explain the FIFA qualification system:
* Europe - represented by UEFA : 51 teams competing for 13 places (Germany qualified automatically as host nation for a total of 14 places)
* Africa : 51 teams, 5 places
* South America : 10 teams, 4.5 places
* Asia - the AFC : 39 teams, 4.5 places
* North, Central America : 34 teams, 3.5 places
* Oceania - the OFC : 12 teams, 0.5 places (not guaranteed a position).
It makes very very little sense to me. Somebody tell me why during the last elections, or during the next one, this issue can't be settled. Just vote for the person promising to reduce or eleminate reservations. Reservations for a job is going entirely too far, but as long the government is subsidizing lower and higher (post-graduate) education, it can do what it wants. Electing different people is the only way out.
Lovely Satirical post.Laughed all through it.Good answer to Mr Moily's twisted analogies.
ReplyDeleteHi Rashmi: Reservations are just so illogical that they beat all argument and the need thereof!
ReplyDeletei don't usually do this, but this time, I really do need your opinion on something. Please check the latest on my blog and tell me what you think.
Hi,
ReplyDeleteThis one was a roller coaster ride on the dimishing reservation protests. The moment these thingies - I cant think of better words for such short sighted people - open their mouth they get bashing from all corners and still they continue like a strongheaded mules.
A good post to tear apart Mr. Moilly
OMG! Isn't reservation a topic of yesterday? Let's just enjoy the football.
ReplyDeleteYea! Miss Rashmi is a "Bansal"; she can't digest reservation protests being a topic of yesterday. Good for IIPM. Atleast some people, if not all, will trickle down there and pay for their (mis)education.. Reservation is the choice of majority ppl of this country.. But the dogs do bark... "Apun woh kutte ki dum hai, jo 100 baras nalli ke andar daal ke, nalli tedi hoti, apun sidha nahin hota!"
ReplyDeleteThere is no parallel between the WC qualifications and the Indian quota system. In the WC, the top 3 positions matter and if your team is really one of the best 3 teams, you will get there.
ReplyDeleteThe quotas are like a knockout round from the get go with only one community getting knocked out for no particular reason.
Well awesome thought.
ReplyDelete"Talk to a stupid in stupid" as they say
Btw. I am football and an India fanatic
who wishes I was alive in 1950, when India qualified for the world cup's 16 countires ! Yeah Thats true. We could not play as barefoot is not allowed : )
Dear Ms Bansal,
ReplyDeletePl bear in mind, should modern India, a Dalit by all means on the international scene, follow the principle of suvival of the fittest, it will have to show the courage of refusing millions of dollars from developed countries that go into feeding malnourished children. We currently boost of the higgest malnourished children in the world, and it is a fact that without help -- quota -- from developed world we will never be able to keep them alive. Should India let them die by refusing to accept any quota of dole. Could u tell us what would happen to india, one day these counrties decide to stop their aid. How many of the development scheme in the country will survive?
Very well, done, Rashmi... this literally exposes all the inherent flaws in the arguments provided by our 'Honourable' minister... only if this post could be heard by them.
ReplyDeleteit will have to show the courage of refusing millions of dollars from developed countries
ReplyDeleteWhere the f' do you get this stuff? Yes, we were heavily dependent on foreign aid pre 1991, it is no longer true. As a matter of fact dependence on foreign aid and the US trade embargo has killed hundreds of millions in India. Once again, we could have avoided the trade embargo but that's another story.
Hey Rashmi..
ReplyDeleteYou should have written this in one of your reddiff articles, which would capture more audience.... Moily's statement was the headlines in TOI a couple of days back and the editors page of TOI (B'lore adition) carried an article finding flaws in moily's arguement, But it aint as good as this one....
Nice post....
All the brilliant upper caste students must immigrate to the USA and Europe, because they do not see themselves fitting in an egalitarian society.
ReplyDeleteThe upper caste Indians are willing to live like third class citizens in West but they are not willing to accede some of their privileges.
It is better these people leave India and live the great US dream.
The depressed classes can take care of themselves.
Before, posting my earlier message, i had not read your profile.
ReplyDeleteBut, after going through it i was quite perturbed at seeing that you are a journalisti.e an editor with a popular magazine.
What perplexed me was the fact that you have totally identified yourself with a particular side i.e pro-reservationists, and have taken up their cause to fight for.
You being a part of the media have the responsibility to be balanced in your views despite the fact that you may be opposing the reservations tooth and nail.
Being in control of a popular magazine, it is very important that you curb your tendencies to take sides and rather present the issues in a balanced manner.
I am also a journalist and also work in a editorial team but as far as my professional assignments are concerned, they are never prejudiced.
Thanking you
I had never read you earlier, but think i like your wit.
mineguruji,
ReplyDeleteWhat perplexed me was the fact that you have totally identified yourself with a particular side i.e pro-reservationists, and have taken up their cause to fight for.
That's a serious typo for a journalist and that too part of an editorial team. By the way your busy schedule didn't prevent you from what amounted to spamming on our humble blog (with less than a tenth of YouthCurry readership) as well.
Let me remind you that in a recent poll conducted by CNN-IBN, 54% upper-castes solidly batted for reservations. Also, the biggest cheer-leaders for reservations are Arjun Singh, VP Singh etc., upper caste folks. Yet you claim that upper-castes are not willing to accede "privileges". As far as your claim of Indians living in the west as third class citizens is concerned, let me remind you that the ethnic Indian group has the highest average income in the US. Many Indians are in very high levels in top companies, including Rajat Gupta (ex-CEO of McKinsey, can't get any WASPier than that institution), ex-CEO of Deloitte, Indra Nooyi (PEPSI CFO) etc. etc. That's hardly third class citizen status. Journalistic integrity indeed!
One factoid for you, Rashmi is married with a kid. So, stop trying to sneak in inane praises like I like your wit etc. etc.
Well, Indians may have the money in the West but they get scant respect and are treated as pests, and I have often witnessed this in Europe.
ReplyDeleteAs far as the upper caste elitists are concerned, they have a habit to live in glass houses far from the reality of the society they live in.
Neither you guys know about the real India and not about the real America, cocooned as you are in sea of green dollars.
Come out of this slumber or you risk a civil war in India, where unfortunately you shall be outnumbered and outvoted.
Buy your ticket to USA soon.
So, upper caste people don't get respect from Europe, US etc. yet they continue to flock there, ostensibly making it easy for your goal of getting more freebies in India. So, what's your problem? Shouldn't you actually encourage upper-caste people by saying, yeah go there, go there, it's raining Dollars and Euros over there!
ReplyDeleteBy the way, talking of civil war, apparently you are not aware that new fact has come to light as far as the great Indian oppression story goes. Even noted Dalit intellectual Chandrabhan Prasad notes, the main oppressors of Dalits in India today are OBCs. As a matter of fact this was the general pattern in the past too.
So, if you can provide us with your casteist background, we will provide you with a detail description of where in the oppression ladder you stand and how much you owe Dalits etc.
Excellent Post....Hilarious, Sarcasmic, and a perfect answer to some questions raised in favour of PG level quotas...Gr8 going!!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.emotionalzombie.blogspot.com/
ReplyDeleteNo! Let’s join the self-proclaimed snobs protesting with slogans “Remember your place”, polishing shoes and cleaning premises? Let’s pretend not to see it at all! Damn Reservations!
Battle for brand IIT
ReplyDeleteIT was a warm sunny day in the land of dreams. Young men and women were gathered under a tree to protest against the atrocities carried out by the State; men with blaring megaphones voicing instructions, women in jeans and designer sunglasses surging politely but determinedly towards visitors for signatures on a petition that beseeched the nation's President to agree to their demands. This slightly surreal picture describes one protest rally peopled by NRIs in the richest part of the richest area of the richest country in the world. This was a Sunday afternoon in the Fair Oaks Park in Sunnyvale, Silicon Valley, California. An earshot away were the head offices of Yahoo, Google, Intel, Cisco and other corporate outfits that have fired the imagination of youth in 21st-century India. But the protest?
`Protecting' India
It was organised to protect India from the clutches of the OBCs. Young men and women NRIs, concerned about the reservations crisis gripping India, had come together under the shade of a Californian Oak grove, to show solidarity with their brethren sweating in the heat of Delhi and other parts of urban India. They were afraid. Clutching their algorithmic and metrical consciousness close to their hearts, they challenged the politically driven and vote bank motivated decision of the Congress regime. They collectively feared for the future state of education in India, if, God forbid, the OBC candidates infiltrated en masse into the hallowed corridors of the IITs and IIMs. They were aghast that it was their own sophisticated Manmohan Singh and not the dehati Laloo Prasad Yadav who had betrayed them.
They were not anxious about the future of their country, although they professed to be. They were concerned about their institutes. The NRIs of Silicon Valley were angry that the quality of their alma mater(s) was under threat. They feared that the intrusion of the more than 50 per cent of undeserving students riding the quota bandwagon would affect the sterling quality of the products of the IIT-IIM brand. Internal desi email groups at Stanford University, Cisco, Intel, and Google were crackling with activity to save the IIT-IIMs from the sure death of the Arjun Singh "inanity". From online petitions to pubic meetings, from solidarity campaigns to letters to the President, Silicon Valley "Indians for Equality" wanted to desperately make an impact on the politically fraught landscape of reservations. But unlike the Indian agitators, the fear lay somewhere else. It was neither their jobs nor their seats that were at stake. Unlike the medical students, they were not planning to compete for Masters or Ph.D. programmes in the constricted postgraduate medical school seats in India, neither were they going to apply for government jobs. And neither was this display on a Sunday morning in Silicon Valley, a mere solidarity meet, as the organisers contended. There was a real, palpable fear — of "brand dilution".
A different fear
They feared for brand IIT-IIM. "Let Arjun Singh do whatever he wants with any educational institute in India. But tell him to leave the IITs alone", fervently remarked a Silicon Valley engineer. He was a close friend, with a Ph.D. from Stanford University, working in one of the largest multinational pharmaceutical companies in the world. We had both come to Stanford as graduate students at the same time. "It is because of us that the West has recognised the worth of India," he furthered elaborated on his point. "Remember," peering deeply into my eyes, he emphasised, "brand India is brand IIT." The NRI call to save the nation from reservations was a call to save the IITs. If dams were the temples of modern India (of Green revolution, Industrialisation, self sufficiency), then the IITs were their counterparts in neo-liberal India (for Infosys, BPOs and the multiple "Silicon Valleys"). It was to save this brand in the name of the nation that agitated Silicon Valley engineers organised the protest. Ironically, more than a grave protest, it looked like a picnic on a sunny Californian Sunday.
Like most consumers and producers of any brand, IIT alumni also believe in brand IIT as the absolute marker of a product's quality. PR firms hawk the IIT brand in the market place of corporate America, to sell its products. Adulation of the mainstream media at home and the presence of IIT lore in American popular culture epitomised by the IIT geek in Dilbert, has transformed IITs from institutions that were the intellectual keystone to Nehru's developmental paradigm, to a sophisticated icon of corporate India's success in the Silicon Valley.
Just imagined constructs
The pervasiveness of the IIT brand and belief in its efficacy is not restricted to the outside world, "the consumer" so to speak, but is deeply ingrained in the products and the producers of the brand itself — the IIT alumni. It appears that they are unable to recognise that brands are imagined constructs with perceived rather than absolute value. The anti-reservation voices disturbing the opulent tranquillity of the NRI-infested Silicon Valley are motivated by a felt need to protect IIT brand equity rather than a need to address the education crisis in India, although it is the latter that is underscored in the posters, pamphlets and websites of anti-reservationists in the U.S.
If the anti-reservation protests in India were largely a result of self-indulgent middle classes screaming hoarse to protect their turf in elite educational establishments, then the resentment in the Silicon Valley was a result of a more affluent, but intrinsically identical middle class protecting its own corporate motivated interests spearheaded by the idea of IIT. A career in Silicon Valley epitomises the aspirations of the privileged middle class Indians who form a substantial percentage of the students entering IITs. A degree from Stanford and a job in the Bay Area are what an IIT topper's dreams are made of. Brand IIT sells in the U.S., and any compromise on its product quality is detrimental to the brand and its saleability, affecting ultimately the aspirations of the IIT product.
A myth perpetuated
The average IIT product believes that the IIT graduates are the finest in India that can be offered to the world — the corporate world, essentially. It is in the U.S. that the myth that brand India is synonymous with brand IIT has been generated, perpetuated and consumed, replacing the earlier narrative of India as the land of elephants and snake charmers. It is important to note that both are imagined constructions and equally unreal, produced through identical sociological processes.
These anti-reservation voices in the Silicon Valley are not to be viewed as mere solidarity songs for the student movement in India, as contended by their organisers and the press. A more insidious subtext, driven by the desire to protect the brand at the cost of the nation, underlies these protests.
As we were admiring the surreality of the protest in the land of dreams, an activist upper caste friend, one of the few who had come to distribute pro-reservation pamphlets at the same meeting, nonchalantly remarked, "Woh IIT bachana chahate hai, hum desh bachna chahate hai."
Ashish Chadha is a doctoral candidate in Cultural and Social Anthropology, Stanford University.
Prior to the announcement of reservations, no doctor or engineer from the upper castes spoke against casteism.
ReplyDeleteWhere was all the concern of these people, who are now speaking against reservations.
I think its casteism perpetuated by upper caste India which has will destroy India rather than reservations.
The article you quote actually blows away two arguments you wanted to make. The author is presumably an upper-caste person and he excoriates the elitist mentality. So, there goes your accusation of casteism and media bias.
ReplyDeleteI think you should pray for us, the barbarians. We are perceived to be openly casteist. But for us your cause will not be helped. Chadhas etc are actually damaging your campaign.
fucking hilarious...gr8 post man!!! 2 good analogy
ReplyDelete