Tuesday, April 26, 2005

The IIT Bubble

"An academic institution should not be know just for its undergraduates. It should be known for the kind of knowledge base we create, the quality of research that we do. We need to really pull up our socks otherwise it os not long before the IIT bubble bursts."

This is what S G Dhande, director, IIT Kanpur had to say in an interview to Tehelka, the people's paper (issue dt Apr 09). He couldn't have put it better.

Although I don't think the 'bubble will burst' - because the goodwill its graduates have earned over the last 4 decades is formidable - certainly IITs have a long way to go. IITians who go to MIT for PG courses excel as individuals but IIT as an institution is nowhere near an MIT in terms of original research.

Dhande believes the spark of creativity and originality of thinking needed for top quality research is missing because IITians are given a completely unidimensional education.

"Knowledge is increasingly becoming inter-disciplinary... Biology is the flavour of the century. We need to delve into all these areas even though we call ourselves a technology institute".

The director relates the story of a faculty member at IIT asking the first year students which novel they had read in the past one year.

There was a stunned silence.
"Where is the time to read novels?" they asked.


Dhande's answer is to start exposing students to design and art, as well as set up a TV studio on campus, a community based FM radio station and start a journalism club. Sounds like fun - with official sanction.

Curiously, in August 2004, IIT Bombay witnessed a sudden cancellation of all cultural and sports activities. JAM's Bureau chief in IIT-B then wrote: The Performing Arts festival and Socials (a theater event) were scaled down to reduce the number of man hours spent on them... The Dean expressed his concern over the the new bodies and clubs cropping up and demanded a 'vision' behind all these activities".

I don't know what the situation is right now, but obviously there is difference of opinion among the powers-that-be in the IIT family!

Jo JEEta wahi...
According to tehelka, at a March 5 meeting of the standing commitee of the IIT council, it was agreed that the present level of JEE is so high that students have to undergo strenuous coaching - which can be as long as 4 years. A proposal to change the examinations pattern is being considered.

Most likely, JEE will revert to from the current 2 stage process which was introduced a few years ago, to one examination from 2006-7. It was also felt that the exam should be 'more simple' and based on class 12 syllabus.

Well and good. However this bit is disturbing: "Performance in the Board exams may be used as criteria for determining eligibility."

Would this mean only those who score above 85 or 90% can attempt JEE? When will they give the exam - after their results are out?

No doubt the current situation sucks. A single coaching institute - Bansal classes in Kota - is sending 827 students to IIT (I kid you not - that was their success rate in the year 2004).

Getting into Bansal (which calls itself 'modern gurukul for IIT JEE) itself has become so tough that someone will need to start a coaching class for that. Maybe there already is one?

But determining eligibility via Board Exams - that can't be the answer. Maybe the JEE should be based more along the lines of the SAT - where basic aptitude/ IQ is measured. But of course in colleges abroad the SAT is used along with subjective criteria like essays, recommendations and student's past academic and extra curricular record.

Which is unlikely to happen here.

Bottomline: At least serious thought is being paid to these issues - even if there is no magic solution. Which is better than IITs just sitting back and feeling complacent about being 'world class'.

Bonus: If IIT truly gets multi-disciplinary, they may - someday- transcend the image ingrained in the public mind - that of the Ultimate Nerd!

24 comments:

  1. Anonymous8:40 PM

    Been following your blog for quite sometime,since the topic this time is closer to home though would put in my few cents.

    1.Regarding the quality of research,the thing that needs to be kept in mind is that most of the research carried out is at the post-graduate level the courses at the ug level are meant to give you a feel for the subject. As far as IIT's are concerned till about 10-15 yrs back their main aim was to improve upon it's undergrad programme , only recently have steps been taken to ensure that the PG prog is brought to similar levels.It will deifinitely take time for it to settle and then for the new PG alumni to make their mark.

    In addition,the basic reason for people going abroad for PG studies is not only the infrastructure but the ready availabiity of scholarships.

    Research at foriegn universites especially at the UG level is based on experimental research groups so that UG's fit in while at IIT's most of the times the faculty expects you to do fundamental theoretical work,something UG's find more difficult to adapt to with their limtied knowledge base.

    2.As far as the extra-courrics and the IITB situation is concerned.I believe the dean has a point.There is a general feeling that extra-courrics have been driven by a certain hype factor in recent times.When people start doing things for adding layers to your resume rather then the fun or the passion involved you know somethings wrong .The moot point is that the setup provides for sufficient forum to prove your credentials at various ex-stuff but the system is bound to fight back when you start using it as a lame excuse to start horribly neglecting what you were originally here for i.e,academics.

    Regarding the novel incident I guess it's a one off coz I know of instances when a friend of mine reapated a course twice after being caught while reading a novel.Basically,IITK and IITB one might say are at two extremes as far as extra-courrics are concerned.B has 2 campus newspapers and decently active clubs catering to various fields.

    3.The problem I feel is with the lack of flexibility in the system.The other day Gurucharan Das had mentioned in his article how he was able to change his major some 4-5 times over his 4 yr undergraduation something an IITian cannot even think of.Many people come to IIT not because they want to but because they are better then their next door neighbours at maths and science,many of them realise that their calling is something totally non-technical and hence lose all interest in acads and this is where they come to head with the system.The IITs pride themselves at being autonomus,this is a place where they can put the power to
    right use.

    4.Regarding JEE,I believe the forte of the exam was that the element of surprise in the paper which forced the student to apply his mind .The coaching classes have over the years have made the student bots who are adept at solving problems similar to ones asked in the last 10-15 years with their left hand.Increasingly the exam is becoming similar to the local JEE exams.The attempt to make it similat to school exams will only compound the situation.What is needed is to revert back to some surprises in the paper a la the CAT paper last year which had neg marking.

    -Rahul

    ReplyDelete
  2. Anonymous9:10 PM

    Btw I forgo to mention that one thing that needs to be curbed and curbed fast is the LAN , it is this monster which lures people(like me) into spending tons of time fooling around,when there's the world from sports to music waiting outside.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Well well well...wat do i say....im a frust IIT student in the first yr itself
    WHY?? COS i failed to realise that the reason why I joined the IIT was becasue it is the best damn ENGINEERING institute in India...i must stress again..ENGINEERING institute..and I hav come here to b an engineer and not a Social and Cultural spoof. But i got carried away and ended up spoiling my grades...Well the autonomous status of IITs give them a lot of flexibility in curricula and decisions are implemented faster and in a more judicious manner here. The JEE is the best exam i stil hold...makin it simple will simply improve the Quantity on Competition and reduce the Quality of it. The very culture of an IIT is hardly comparable to any other college in India...may be Manipal is gettin on and tryin to race ahead..but IITs are much more established than a Manipal. Neither ways...ppl must realise tht the main aim of IIT is to make a world class engineer..and most importantly THAT HE STAYS IN INDIA and contriibutes to INDIA not some other nation....Our annual fees is 50 thousand rupees and that is just 20 % of the total cost of educating one student in IIT...sothe government is spendin 2 lac rupees on each IIT student each year...and We must give back...I can just go on and on...but I dont wanna say more..hav my electronics paper tomorrow..
    http://adityamarathe.blogspot.com
    dybydx.iitkgp@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  4. Anonymous12:40 AM

    Aditya,
    good that you realised that you came here for being an engineer.But the point is acting in a few dram and some similar activites wont make you a cultural spoof.If you feel that doing both of them is too much for you to handle,then definitely don't even bother,put your foot down and study.

    And regarding your point about students not giving back well that I feel is a tad irrelevant to the subject being discussed.In addition,if you do care to go through the booklet the institute provided you with at the time of admission,it mentions 5-6 aims of education at an IIT and all round development is one of them.How round should that all round be ia a completely different question.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Alright I agree tht it aims at all round development and i am proud tht i m in IIT...cos my frnds studyin in regional colleges and local colleges dont get tht much..infact get notin other thn some standard of education in their colleges...and i m gettin many things to do here..so i must do....fine agreed...
    and one more point i wud like to add...ppl must actually visit an IIT for a whole day and look keenly at a hosteler's life thr before they comment tht the IIT system is a hopla hulla...thr r many who do say so.

    ReplyDelete
  6. To start with well...one of the most important determining criterion behind a good Tech school would be the faculty and research.The faculty IIT,with odd exception of Maninders is'nt really known for world class research.
    And an equally importantly factor is the quality of core science depts,which in IIT's is abysmally bad.While any top tech school would pride itself on having brilliant science depts with atleast half a dozen nobel laureates.
    Quality of student intake is'nt particularly great either.Most IITians ,esp the bunch from kota and hyd arent generally bright.Most IITians make it through only by slogging their asses off for JEE at coaching classes and many of them are in IIT not particularly because of love for technology but simply because they view as a stepping stone to fast and good money.JEE is the most overrated test in the world sheerly because of the numbers involved.Anyone who has ever given an national olympiad would find JEE a lot easier.
    IIT's also have one of the the weirdest system of branch allocation.Cant figure why someone wanting to do an integrated masters in math needs to give an organic chemistry test.
    And to be frank..cant figure out why IIT's are so overhyped just by producing the odd Nandan nilekeni.And especially ignoring institutes like Presi cal and St Xavier's bombay whose alumnii have made far more significatnt contribution to core sciences and research than the IIT's.(case in point String theory group in TIFR/HRI which is filled with ex presidencites and ex xavierites)

    ReplyDelete
  7. IIT is a dumb,useless institute.Why? Let's see now...
    JEE: Oh great. They dump the exam with immpossibly hard problems. Even the toppers get only half marks. Seen the SAT question paper? Any JEE going student will say it's a piece of cake. But still America is the nation having better research(think MIT,Caltech), America is the superpower. Just because JEE is a hard question paper doesn't mean that people qwho do well in it ar actually smart. Passing this test is dead easy for ANYONE with an Average intelligence. Just lock yourself in a room for 2 years without talking to anyone and do nothing but study and wallah! you've kicked butt in JEE!

    College: From what I hear, they are filled with rigourous coaching...and that we should serve the nation(and ignore the dying planet?)...and nonsense like that.Rigourous coaching is useless, if a student wants to do research and stuff, then let him do it without any pressure. If a student wants to learn a particular thing, then let him do it himself. They should just have a minimum coaching and leave the students to themselves. Surely students of such high caliber can study on their own and don't need to be spoon fed!Or is it just that most IITians are brainless idiots who stuffed their mind with equations and facts?

    If there are non extra-curricular activities, then it shows that IITians are incompetant weaklings. They are scared and want to shut themselves up a lab away from the world. They might find out how to do the immpossible, but who cares? Nobody knows!

    Research:Oh great, what have they found? The minimum value of the function y=x^2? Hah! It takes more than the ability to solve crazy problems to do good research. It takes creativity. And that, IITians lack.They don't go far because they can't get ideas. IIT is a bane of India and contributes to us remaining a third-world country.

    Extra-curriculars:I agree with Rahul on this one.People in India want money,more money, more money. I hate that. I want money,but not for showing it off. I don't want THAT much money or THIS much money. I just want to be well off to buy good food,clothes,books and other stuff and just enjoy my life. I don't intend on making money for my son, if he wants money then he can earn it himself.Getting back to the point,about the ignoring academics thing:If you don't like to study what you are studying,DONT! This is an important lesson I learned in my life. Why torture yourself for money that you can't keep anyway? If you don't like academics, then give up and do something else. Like art or writing. There are so many fields out there.
    Ask an IITian to ask a girl out. He'll shake and fall. They are all cowards.

    The novel incident shows that IITians are too consumed in their lives of nothing to notice the works of other people.they have no appreciation of other people.

    Actually, I am in 12th now and stopped studying for IIT long back. I don't want to ruin my life.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Hi

    I'm afraid I don't quite agree with my young friend jetru. I'm just a year senior to him and I think that this whole debate is going haywire. While I am not (yet) an IIT student and so I cannot give any fresh perspective to it which would be of some use, I have some opinions of my own which I shall now begin to state.

    The Joint Entrance Examination should NOT be simplified any further. I think the exam has come a long way and has stood the test of time while other examination boards and systems have faced difficulties and have had to change with time for good and bad. I think also that the JEE has become much easier than it used to be some years ago. The general belief that the JEE is a tough exam still persists because of the difference in JEE questions and preparation requirements.

    Sure, the JEE isn't as easy as the board exams in our country. You can't get through by mugging up some facts a week before the test and manage to get a decent 85-90% marks either (this goes for most people)--at least not for the mains exam. And it shouldn't be that way.

    Of late, I have been following columns in newspapers about the debate thats going on to make the paper easy. In one sentence, I don't think that making the JEE will improve matters. The IITs seem to be wanting to beat coaching schools. And thats a fair thing to do as there are still a large number of JEE aspirants who do not have access to coaching schools and hence, the only exposure to "JEE-level education" is at the school. Besides, coaching is not (according to any institute desirous of getting a fraction of students through a tough entrance test) a necessary condition for success. It is not even sufficient as statistics shows!

    People who are not familiar with the JEE (parents, teachers of schools and students who haven't taken the tests or haven't begun preparing yet) have the impression that coaching is the ultimate tool for JEE. As a student, I agree that coaching is quite useful in some respects. It gives you some guidance as to how things should be done. But at the end of the day you will realize that you have to do EVERYTHING ON YOUR OWN. There's no substitute for hard work and certainly none for JEE, if at all there is for the board exams. Coaching gives a great idea of the competition you have to face. It is perhaps necessary that you sit under exam conditions and among a large number of people like yourself and feel the heat..at times when you should.

    This exam as I have realized over the past few years, is not really about testing knowledge or experience. Its about giving you something either extremely simple or apparently difficult and asking you to solve it in finite time and display your skill doing that. Now lets compare it with the current board exam system: they focus mainly on FACTS and not PRINCIPLES. They have heavy syllabi and not 100% students manage to pass with reasonable marks anyway. Schools--as a general rule (of course there could be exceptions)--do not prepare us for tough situations. And frankly, you cannot blame them for it. The policy of boards and schools is usually to pass everyone and let the system stay as it is, let alone test sklls. As long as life goes on, there is no reason why you should endeavor to improve it.

    Why shouldn't the JEE be as easy or as obvious as the board exams?

    1. To reduce the probability of rote learners getting through the screening test thus bringing down the chances of honest JEE aspirants who score marks within a deleted delta neighbourhood of the cutoff.

    2. To keep students under check. Despite apparent flaws (I think there are none though) the JEE system forces students to study on their own and keeps them from taking science lightly as they probably could have managed to do till Class 10. This is something great because you can learn a lot in Class 11 and 12 if you push yourself. Nobody can fill in all the science and math in your brain now...this really is a pre-research test. This is what you will do if you join a prestigious university...you have to do things yourself to a large extent.

    3. Lower cutoffs and stricter marking patterns...now if 100 students clear the screening test and there aren't as many seats the screening test really becomes a rejection test. Imagine the condition of those students who are so close to the cutoff but have been edged down the pyramid merely due to ONE question.

    4. Most important: Making the JEE easier will lower the standard of education that JEE aspirants uphold all over the country as the common minimum basis for understanding and comprehension of science and mathematics for at least being in the run for the ranks. As it is school education isn't going to be sufficient for us in the next few years. Board exams simply cannot match the intellectual challenges of entrance exams and since they won't be allowed to improve to such levels, all they will do is to damage the standards of JEE.

    As far as pressure on students is concerned, yes there is a lot of pressure. But a large part of it is because of parents, friends, brothers and sisters who have perhaps made it big somewhere and want their siblings to do the same. I think it is wrong to blame JEE or IITs for creating this pressure because they are not at all responsible for it. It is a direct outcome of the social system in our country after all and they form a minute fraction of it which does not determine public opinion or alter it!

    Finally, I do not think that the state of the JEE should be related to research at the IITs. The JEE exam certainly gives you an inside view of yourself so that when you step into IIT, you know what your strengths and weaknesses are. As you begin your fresh life, you are drilled well enough to handle the pressures and the excitement and strike a good balance between the two. The inside IIT standards are not governed by JEE and the spirit of IITs will ensure they continue to remain temples for research and education in India.

    I sincerely hope that in the best interests of students all over the country, the standards of pre-undergraduate education continue to soar high and are not determined by the outside world.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Anonymous9:11 PM

    HI
    I am an IIT aspirant and I quite agree that the JEE shouldn't be made any easier.The difference between a guy working hard to get his concepts right would get beaten by a guy who can just memorise well.

    And I agree that CREATIVITY is damn important.You need to be creative to find the solutions to the JEE probs(which,mind u, aren't really difficult).

    And about the part 'bout lot of IITians being 'nerds' , I agree.
    But a guy who is seriously interested in Reasearch, creativity comes to him/her naturally.
    A lot of people spend their best part of their lives,studying for IIT,then studying at IIT, ALL BECAUSE THEY WANT A FREAKING HIGH-PAYING JOB!
    THEY DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT CREATIVITY OR RESEARCH.

    I study every second I've got ,preparing for the JEE BUT I ENJOY IT.I don't mug facts cuz i dont have a really good memory.But if I've got my Fundas right ,I can solve probs right out of Irodov.

    And I don't wear specs, contacts or anything like that.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Anonymous7:18 AM

    Hello,

    This is one of the more useful blogspots that I have come across in a while. I am an engineering major from India (BITS Pilani). Even though I do have a vested interest in taking sides in this "IITs are not what they seem" debate let me try and highlight some points (both for and against):

    1) There is no doubt that the IIT entrance is one of the toughest in the world (if not THE toughest) and clearing this monster of an exam is definitely a mark of achievement. Therefore to those of you who think that the only glory in clearing this is gaining membership of the nerd club, you should revisit your opinion. Moreover the other benefit of an entrance exam is to somewhat reduce what I call the "standard deviation" of competency among the students. This was evident in Pilani as it was pretty shocking to watch people who (later) finished grad studies from Stanford with accelerated schedules share the same class with students who at the time of their graduation as civil engineering majors did not care much about something as fundamental as Hooke's law. This is evident in some US schools too (particularly the private ones) but they make up for that by having Nobel laureates and good research.

    2) Having said so, let me also state that here in the US the sheer number of the IIT grads who have excelled in research and floated successful startups is disproportionately high as compared to other schools from India (including Pilani). This probably results from the fact that the IITs acted as a catalyst for their budding talent and the US provided the unique environment of innovation and entrepreneurship to succeed. So this is the second argument against the naysayers of the IIT system of entrance and education.

    3) Now having said all these let me state that just having an IIT stamp is NOT good enough. In this context a few things stand out in the schools and industry as I see here. The traiblazers I mentioned in (2) above are MOSTLY the people who are the creme-de-la-creme among the IITians. These people (as I know in a few cases) had <50 ranks in the JEE and many of them were the PGMs (or close to that) at the time of graduation from IIT. In other words, these individuals were always at the top of their game. What is very disturbing is to see other IITians (I am not implying that they are dumb but yes there is a difference in quality between them and these select few) trying to bask in borrowed fame without actually having the credentials. I have met such people here from the IITs who have been naive enough to even suggest that the GRE for them should be cancelled just because they are from an IIT! So here is where I would say some of that well-roundedness in intellectuality is missing as Rashmi points out in her main article. If anyone follows the webpages of high achievers in the top-tier schools here you can notice that many of them do a minor in some non-science/non-engineering disciplines. One of my grad profs here did his undergrad in music before switching to neural networks! If you know a large spread of IITians (or for that matter from any school in India) with similar versatility please feel free to post and educate us.

    4) Another very undesirable aspect of this whole IIT debate is the creation of a virtual class structure within the Indian science and engineering community - the IITians versus the non-IITians (the haves and the have-nots)! This has resulted in we Indians not caring much about the achievements of desi scientists unless they are IITians. Notice that there is a bias to this effect even in the Indian media - when reporting about the success of somebody from IIT, the school name is always mentioned. On the other hand if that person happens to be from Pilani/Manipal/REC Trichy/Anna just to name a few the school name is often omitted in the report. Does this imply that the non-IITians should be ashamed of their alma mater? Absolutely NOT!
    How many of you know that Professor Thomas Kailath at Stanford considered one of the pioneers of estimation theory is from Pune University? One of American friends (who did his BS and MS from the top 10 here) with whom I was discussing this joked saying "We thought you guys (desis) were obsessed with caste and religion. Now it appears that I have to add school of origin to the list". Where I work we have people from top schools like Princeton, MIT, USC etc. Guess which school has an intra-company mailing list? IIT!

    This class warfare was probably given an ultimate boost when Leslie Stahl's programme on IIT was broadcast on CBS 60 minutes. I am not sure why but there was some mention of one single IIT being better than some of the top-3 schools here combined. Let me tell you frankly - there can be no bigger misunderstanding than the one like this.

    I guess my blog is assuming proportions of a novella but let me end by saying that the happenings of the next 30-35 yrs of your career after finishing undergraduate studies are not cast in stone by the previous 4/5 years. They can just act as a good initial condition.

    Feel free to vent anyone. Take care.

    ReplyDelete
  11. I agree with the previous post but in some degree of entirity. Well, I (un)fortunately do not have the time to write volumes here, though I would like to say a couple of things. Yes, basking in borrowed fame is not only stupid but also does not prove to help those dreamy few who practice such a thing. But being in an IIT, I personally feel that participating in cultural events, to be a spoof or not, to polish it up in ur resume or not, as an unfeigned passion or not is solely ones choice. I mean in similitude to what we have as the "haves" and the "have-nots", ask any iitian, and he'll be more than ready to give u an endless lecture on the "haves" and "have-nots" within an iit itself. so just by looking at the "have-not" class within an iit and saying that research here sucks or ppl just bask in borrowed fame is stupid and naive. there are people here who do what THEY want. this does not always imply that they go against the academic system that has been meticulously laid out for them(atleast i would like to think so). i have some friends who not only had "time" to read a novel in the first year, which i may add is quite a dumb thing to ponder upon, but have also pursued a one month intern in the Hindu as a columnist and then gone on to do a two month intern in ETH Switzer. in bio-informatics. the situation is not at all uniform, and basing any conclusions on this example that i just quoted or ne other one for that matter would be and is unfair, both for an aspirant, and an iitian. well what i'd like to conclude with here is that if a person knows what he wants to do in life, he can be a nerd or not, an iit is the place where ur talents n ur creativity is fully nurtured and u are provided with what i'd like to call a very competent environment to do so. oh and one more thing, @ jetru, dude, grow up, just coz u have some loser acquaintances in some iit doesnt mean that the whole fraternity is like that, but hey, i understand, ur just in the 12th.. u have time my mate, use it well..

    ReplyDelete
  12. Anonymous3:06 PM

    Hello Guys,
    Nice discussion going on here.I would like to add a few points myself.I am a final year undergraduate student of IITG .I have a CPI of just around 8 (u might say thats bad)..I didnt come out with flying colours in JEE (got a rank above 800)......We have a batch strength of 42 in the department.When I was in 2nd year in IIT I thought similarly like you.....I was interested in research and so are many of my friends(around 25/42 I can say).....But we thought that we are not good enough and that the faculty was not good and the research and teachers we were getting were far worse than the teachers in BITS or RECs and the projects we did just sucked(pardon me on this).....But then I got a chance of doing an internship in Europe......I was introduced to the kind of research that was going on in the so called DEVELOPED COUNTRIES.....I got to meet the people studying in THE FAMOUS SCHOOLS OF EUROPE....and After I met them all and done all the research I have only a few things left to say......IITs still produce world class students and research in theses sucks.....The best students in these so called developed countries contribute about lets say 0.00009% to the research going on here........The government funds most of the projects here.......The research is like a childs play to us (IITans)....I had 3 months to complete the project(which was totally research oriented).......And I completed it in 2 months and now I am going on a tour of Europe.......This is also the case with most of my department friends (35/42 ) have gone for an internship abroad..........


    A few days back I asked my Professor here in Europe as to why he chose IIT student rather than students from his own university or from Europe......He said that the undergraduates from IIT are one of the best and respected in other countries because of the Level of JEE exam they get through......When I went for counselling after JEE I asked the Director of an IIT( who was givin advice to students )as to what branch and IIT I should choose....Guess what his reply was..........He said that dear student We here at IIT do not give preference to any branch or IIT.....At IIT you only get only basic preparation which is of no use when you go into the world......But the way we give you the teaching prepares you for the worst in the world.....You will be moulded and given very good basics so that you can learn anything which is of higher level....The things which you learn in IIT is of no use in practical world but they give so good basics that you can tackle any problem.....You can exel in any field.....The difference between IITs and the other Schools is this.....The other schools try to make you an engineer and not so much think of moulding you into the person you want to be.......SO DO U STILL THINK THAT THE LEVEL OF JEE SHOULD BE BROUGHT DOWN OR IITans ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR RESEARCH? Think again........

    Not everyone is recognised Or not everyone is in Stanford.......But every IITan has that part of IIT in him and he will exel "IN WHATEVER FIELD HE GOES INTO IF HE REALLY WANTS TO SHINE" .....


    I dont say that other institutes are not upto the level......But I will not agree that only the ppl who have a JEE rank <50 are people who are in to research and all others just bask in the glory of IIT........



    And ananymous@BITS PILANI ...... Dude do you think you are really better than the guys who got a rank >50 in JEE .....I guess not .....I am sure you would have given JEE and taken coaching for it as well and still you couldnt get through.....So u joined BITS....So do not write absurd comments on others.......Everyone tries to be the best.....But you are not just good enough......

    ReplyDelete
  13. Anonymous3:08 PM

    Hello Guys,
    Nice discussion going on here.I would like to add a few points myself.I am a final year undergraduate student of IITG .I have a CPI of just around 8 (u might say thats bad)..I didnt come out with flying colours in JEE (got a rank above 800)......We have a batch strength of 42 in the department.When I was in 2nd year in IIT I thought similarly like you.....I was interested in research and so are many of my friends(around 25/42 I can say).....But we thought that we are not good enough and that the faculty was not good and the research and teachers we were getting were far worse than the teachers in BITS or RECs and the projects we did just sucked(pardon me on this).....But then I got a chance of doing an internship in Europe......I was introduced to the kind of research that was going on in the so called DEVELOPED COUNTRIES.....I got to meet the people studying in THE FAMOUS SCHOOLS OF EUROPE....and After I met them all and done all the research I have only a few things left to say......IITs still produce world class students and research in these foreign univs sucks.....The best students in these so called developed countries contribute about lets say 0.00009% to the research going on here........The government funds most of the projects here.......The research is like a childs play to us (IITans)....I had 3 months to complete the project(which was totally research oriented).......And I completed it in 2 months and now I am going on a tour of Europe.......This is also the case with most of my department friends (35/42 ) have gone for an internship abroad..........


    A few days back I asked my Professor here in Europe as to why he chose IIT student rather than students from his own university or from Europe......He said that the undergraduates from IIT are one of the best and respected in other countries because of the Level of JEE exam they get through......When I went for counselling after JEE I asked the Director of an IIT( who was givin advice to students )as to what branch and IIT I should choose....Guess what his reply was..........He said that dear student We here at IIT do not give preference to any branch or IIT.....At IIT you only get only basic preparation which is of no use when you go into the world......But the way we give you the teaching prepares you for the worst in the world.....You will be moulded and given very good basics so that you can learn anything which is of higher level....The things which you learn in IIT is of no use in practical world but they give so good basics that you can tackle any problem.....You can exel in any field.....The difference between IITs and the other Schools is this.....The other schools try to make you an engineer and not so much think of moulding you into the person you want to be.......SO DO U STILL THINK THAT THE LEVEL OF JEE SHOULD BE BROUGHT DOWN OR IITans ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR RESEARCH? Think again........

    Not everyone is recognised Or not everyone is in Stanford.......But every IITan has that part of IIT in him and he will exel "IN WHATEVER FIELD HE GOES INTO IF HE REALLY WANTS TO SHINE" .....


    I dont say that other institutes are not upto the level......But I will not agree that only the ppl who have a JEE rank <50 are people who are in to research and all others just bask in the glory of IIT........



    And ananymous@BITS PILANI ...... Dude do you think you are really better than the guys who got a rank >50 in JEE .....I guess not .....I am sure you would have given JEE and taken coaching for it as well and still you couldnt get through.....So u joined BITS....So do not write absurd comments on others.......Everyone tries to be the best.....But you are not just good enough......

    ReplyDelete
  14. Anonymous6:11 PM

    Sale harami IIT main aa gaya hai,
    Tab bhi frust hoo raha hai.

    Beta dekh grades kam aane ke baad to koi bhi frusta jaata hai tu bhi frustaa gaya.

    Logoon ke pass gaya our humaare institute ki buraai karni shuru kae di.Logoon ne soocha ki IIT our IITIAN aise hi hoote hain.

    Our chutioon ne tujhe bhav diya .Yaad rakh Abhi jo yeh teri baat sun rahe hain Woh bhi tere iit main aane ke karan.

    Our chutie Aek baar IIT ki taraf pyar se dekh,IIT main aek pyari si life tera intazaar kar rahi hai .

    Chutiyaape band kar nahi to aadha nahi poora carrer kharaab hoo jaayega.
    Agar innse aise hi bakchodi karta raha too.

    Chal bye

    ReplyDelete
  15. Anonymous12:41 AM

    IIT is a world-class institution which is perhaps only one of the few education institutions in the world where a student is actually "EDUCATED" in the real sense of the word. So, all you people out there "get a life".Ther are hundreds of things better than hanging out with dumb girls who heavily rely on their memory to pass stupid exams.

    ReplyDelete
  16. hmm..
    my 2cents on this topic.
    For guys, "IIT aspirants", you have no reason to be online and wasting time,ok wait read this little piece and start solving irodov.
    IIT is supposed to be the best institute in India,with distinguished faculty and providing an excellent platform for research.

    Im a btech student in iit in my 3rd year,this is my take on the topic.

    There is no possibility of research in IIT fullstop.(avg profs and bad curriculum)
    Using IIT you can achieve two things
    1) use it as a platform to do research aka phd , ms(here you actually do research), your chances of landing in top univs is significantly higher if you are an iitian(obvious reasons like established name,alumni....).
    2) just get through the exams here with decent effort and BANG! 4th year campus recruitment will land you an avg salary of 3lacs.
    Disclaimer: I'm not with some fundoo grades(7.4cpi) and i study in iit guwahati.(place not blessed with an excellent faculty, but where you can get more $$ if you are looking for jobs :) )
    bye, all the best.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Hi there
    Really interesting discussion going on.I have been following it for sometime.
    The guys here who think JEE is mere cramming and that even dumb guys can get through, wake up.The great thing about JEE is its minimal dependence on rote learning.I am a true slacker(and not proud of it), yet did better than some of my classmates who literally studied thrice as much.You don't need quantity for JEE......
    Being a "Kota product" myself, I would like to clarify a few things. Kota is not synonymous with spoon feeding. The main reason for its success is the simple fact that so many bright kids from all over the country study together. Believe me preparing for IIT was intellectual
    heaven to an extent even greater than IIT itself(me in IIT Bombay).
    What Kota does is-
    (a) A kid from a reallly small town, like me, with no previous exposure to the 'big league',is able to discover his potential and get inspired by his brilliant classmates.

    (b)The "no school" system got rid of the frustrations of waiting for others to catch up.Classes were brief and challenging.

    (c)We get almost the whole day to ourselves, leaving tons of space for
    recreation, general gossip and intellectual pondering(in increasing order).

    (d)Students dont just study in Kota.They live there.Living alone when you're 14 is not as simple as it sounds.A protected environment like our college hostel dosen't exist in Kota.I had a really comfortable life till 10th.But after
    Kota, I can deal with any kind of problems or people with confidence.

    (e)Now the negetive points - If you are not bright enough for IIT dont even think about Kota. I have seen many talented students who could have excel in various fields completely waste themselves in pursuit of IIT, especially in Kota.
    Get IQ tests done, talk to some sensible teachers.Too many kids in Kota realise their limitations in a few months.That's how the 'drop' system came into being.I think intelligence is like physical beauty or good looks.If you have it, take advantage and get ahead in life, but
    neither is it necessary nor sufficient.

    I guess thats enough for now.As for me I'm one of those sub-50 IIT JEE ,did good in Olympiad kind of guys
    who's having the time of his life in IIT Bombay!

    ReplyDelete
  18. IIT Guwahati sucks. It is even worse than a REC. Just look at the profiles of the professors in the CS department in IITG and compare it with IITD or IITK. You will know the difference. Only the bottom rankers in JEE goes there along with IIT Roorkee. What kind of research will they do can easily be understood.

    ReplyDelete
  19. I am currently an undergrad student at Harvard. I don't have anything against IIT, but I will say that most IIT grads DO NOT reach certain places in life. For example, my Physics professor is an IIT grad and has a PhD from Harvard. This guy is quite intelligent but yet is a damn professor. What's the deal with Indian professors??

    IIT grads have the ability and caliber to become CEOs and successful entrepreneurs. Still they end up being freaking professors not because they like teaching..but because they are lazy losers who want flexible schedules and an easy job.

    Though I think that it's easier for an IV League graduate to get a better job than a person from another college. I do think that many of the students from ordinary colleges excel a lot in life and many times have the brains to reach places much higher than MOST grads from IIT...ofcourse I am referring to the people living in the US.

    ReplyDelete
  20. "A kid from a reallly small town, like me, with no previous exposure to the 'big league',is able to discover his potential and get inspired by his brilliant classmates." I completely agree with this.

    ReplyDelete
  21. 减速机 齿轮减速机 SEW减速机 摆线针轮减速机 蜗轮蜗杆减速机 interlining
    明星代言 明星经纪公司
    制动单元 铝壳电阻
    modern abstract art sofa manufacturer
    净水器 开水器 净水机 净水 软水机 软水 直饮机 家用净水 家用净水器 家用净水机 中央净水 中央净水器 水家装 水家电 水卫士 混合机
    过滤机 DHL快递 俄罗斯签证 回转支承 Laser marking
    保险箱 法兰 法兰标准
    polycarbonate sheet 回流焊 波峰焊
    压球机 注册上海公司 儿童摄影
    牛皮癣 皮肤病 制氮机
    食堂售餐机 校园一卡通
    学校一卡通 ic卡售饭机
    食堂售饭机 深圳一卡通
    广东售饭机 机电设备安装
    北京发票 代开发票
    餐饮发票 住宿发票
    广告发票
    网络电话 免费网络电话
    假发 补发
    织发 植发
    压滤机 板框压滤机
    蒸馏水机 纯蒸气发生器
    上海搬家公司 上海搬场公司
    大众搬家 大众搬场
    张家界旅游 香港旅游
    深圳旅行社 打包机
    收缩机 对讲机 电源模块
    血管栓塞剂
    售饭机 水控机 水控器
    萎缩性胃炎 neoprene laptop bags
    SEO优化
    SEO优化 计量泵
    胃炎 胃病
    冷水机 冰水机
    工业冷水机
    北京特价机票 北京打折计票 北京国际机票
    北京机票预定 北京飞机票
    北京订机票 北京机票查询 饮料机械
    银杏 水培花卉 企业宣传片 空分设备
    化工泵 离心机
    电话交换机 程控交换机 集团电话 集装袋
    混合机 混合机
    混合机捏合机 捏合机
    捏合机导热油炉 导热油炉
    导热油炉 反应釜 反应釜
    反应釜 spherical roller bearing
    搬运车 搬运车 电动搬运车 油桶搬运车 堆高车 电动堆高车 半电动堆高车 堆垛车
    高空作业平台车 电动叉车 平衡重叉车 前移叉车 电瓶叉车
    韩国饰品批发 模块电源
    X架 超薄灯箱> 易拉宝 展柜制作
    代理服务器 游戏加速器 网络加速器
    网通加速器 电信加速器 电信网通转换器
    电信网通加速器 网通电信互转
    网通电信互通 网络游戏加速器
    美国VPN代理 美国独享VPN 美国独享IP
    pvc ceiling panel Spherical roller bearings
    SEO优化
    安全鞋 劳保鞋 防砸鞋 电绝缘鞋 上海安全鞋 上海劳保鞋 江苏劳保鞋
    服装软件 服装管理软件 进销存软件
    进销存管理软件 服装管理系统 服装进销存软件
    进销存系统 进销存管理系统 免费进销存软件
    吉林中医 东北特产
    打包机
    阳痿 阴茎短小 阴茎增大
    早泄 前列腺炎 阴茎增粗 阴茎延长
    国际机票 上海国际机票
    国际特价机票 国际打折机票
    砂磨机 砂磨机
    砂磨机 卧式砂磨机
    卧式砂磨机 卧式砂磨机
    三辊研磨机 三辊研磨机
    三辊研磨机 混合机 混合机
    混合机 锥形混合机 锥形混合机 锥形混合机 行星动力混合机 行星动力混合机 行星动力混合机 无重力混合机 无重力混合机 无重力混合机
    干粉砂浆设备 干粉砂浆设备
    干粉砂浆设备 捏合机 捏合机 捏合机 导热油炉 导热油炉 导热油炉 反应釜 反应釜 反应釜 搪玻璃反应釜 搪玻璃反应釜 搪玻璃反应釜
    乳化机 涂料设备 干混砂浆设备 无重力混合机 胶体磨 涂料成套设备 双螺旋混合机
    北京婚庆 北京婚庆公司
    400电话
    办证 呼吸机 制氧机
    亚都 亚都加湿器 亚都净化器
    亚都装修卫士
    饰品批发 小饰品批发 韩国饰品 韩国饰品批发 premature ejaculation penis enlargement
    安利产品 马来西亚留学
    网站优化 网站推广
    衬布
    代写论文
    代写论文
    论文代写 代写论文
    磁力泵
    离心泵
    化工泵
    隔膜泵
    螺杆泵
    潜水泵
    油泵
    耐腐蚀泵
    水泵
    拖链 防护罩 排屑机 塑料拖链 钢铝拖链
    化工离心泵
    计量加油泵
    自吸式离心泵
    管道油泵
    自吸式排污泵
    潜水排污泵
    自吸式磁力泵
    耐高温磁力泵
    不锈钢多级离心泵
    多级离心泵
    耐腐蚀自吸泵
    自吸化工泵
    玻璃钢液下泵
    液下式排污泵
    卧式离心清水泵
    氟塑料磁力泵
    磁力驱动循环泵
    耐腐蚀污水泵
    卧式化工离心泵
    玻璃钢耐酸泵
    防爆管道油泵
    不锈钢多级泵
    立式多级离心泵
    塑料磁力泵
    水泵厂
    手摇油泵
    上海水泵厂
    上海水泵
    离心泵厂家
    热水泵
    清水泵
    气动隔膜泵
    深圳装饰 深圳装饰公司 深圳装修公司
    特价机票 打折机票 国际机票
    机票
    新风换气机 换气机 立式新风换气机 风机箱 新风系统 能量回收机
    搅拌机 混合机 乳化机
    分散机
    毛刷 毛刷辊 工业毛刷 刷子 钢丝刷
    涂层测厚仪 硬度计
    兆欧表 激光测距仪
    测振仪 转速表
    温湿度计 风速仪
    超声波测厚仪
    粗糙度仪
    噪音计 红外测温仪
    万用表
    硬度计 万用表
    美容院 美容加盟
    澳洲留学 澳大利亚留学
    什么是法兰
    电烤箱
    酒店预定 北京酒店预定 北京酒店
    离心机
    nail equipment nail products nail product nail uv lamp nail uv lamp nail uv lamps uv nail lamp nail brush
    nail file nail tool nail tip nail gel curing uv lamps lights
    万用表 风速仪
    红外测温仪 噪音计
    苗木价格 苗木信息 标牌制作 深圳标牌 北京儿童摄影 防静电鞋 淘宝刷信誉
    威海凤凰湖 威海海景房 大庆密封件
    打标机 淘宝刷信誉 TESOL/TEFL国际英语教师证书 英语教师进修及培训 北京快递公司 北京国际快递

    ReplyDelete
  22. ^^ nice blog!! ^@^

    徵信, 徵信網, 徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信社, 感情挽回, 婚姻挽回, 挽回婚姻, 挽回感情, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信, 捉姦, 徵信公司, 通姦, 通姦罪, 抓姦, 抓猴, 捉猴, 捉姦, 監聽, 調查跟蹤, 反跟蹤, 外遇問題, 徵信, 捉姦, 女人徵信, 女子徵信, 外遇問題, 女子徵信, 徵信社, 外遇, 徵信公司, 徵信網, 外遇蒐證, 抓姦, 抓猴, 捉猴, 調查跟蹤, 反跟蹤, 感情挽回, 挽回感情, 婚姻挽回, 挽回婚姻, 外遇沖開, 抓姦, 女子徵信, 外遇蒐證, 外遇, 通姦, 通姦罪, 贍養費, 徵信, 徵信社, 抓姦, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信公司, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信公司, 徵信社, 徵信公司, 女人徵信, 外遇

    徵信, 徵信網, 徵信社, 徵信網, 外遇, 徵信, 徵信社, 抓姦, 徵信, 女人徵信, 徵信社, 女人徵信社, 外遇, 抓姦, 徵信公司, 徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信社, 女人徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 女子徵信社, 女子徵信社, 女子徵信社, 女子徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信社,

    徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 外遇, 抓姦, 離婚, 外遇,離婚,

    徵信, 外遇, 離婚, 徵信社, 徵信, 外遇, 抓姦, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 外遇, 徵信社, 徵信, 外遇, 抓姦, 徵信社, 征信, 征信, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 征信, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信, 外遇, 抓姦, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信,

    ReplyDelete
  23. Faint hint of the love of friendship

    Faint hint of the love of friendship. There is a friend, I think that is a cheap wow gold kind of love and friendship between the feelings between, you will occasionally miss a time to silence him, reminds him, the warm heart, a beautiful, a moving. Sad and worried at the time, you will think of him, you hope that he can in your side, give you comfort and buy wow power leveling understanding to you, and you never talk to him, are you afraid of their own grief that would preclude him from peaceful life.

    You will be a song, a color, think of him, think of my wow gold his sincerity, he reminds me of the dedication, his mind had gone through the ups and downs together. With such a friend, you will treasure their lives and love their own lives, because you know I hope you had a good, he would like you to take care of themselves properly, and then to meet, he cheapest wow power leveling would like you to tell him you very happy.

    That the concept of secularism, in your mind, because his replica replica rolex presence has become pale and weak, you are only in the depths of the bottom of my heart for this man set up a small space, stick with that quietly happy memories, from the the very beginning you know that you will not have any love, it seems that talk about love on the desecration CHEAP wow power level of this emotion, this can only be a friendship. This is how in the end all about? You want to for many years, but no clue.

    You seldom have contacts in this long life, you meet the door may be only a few of the ten thousandth time, but in each other's hearts retain a miss, one asked, even if he went to the ends of the earth, even after many, many years, even BUY power leveling when the meet again, has long been a non-object is not, you still remember back as a profound, and this has been sufficient.

    Sometimes life will calm a dry, maybe you will fall into the dry I replica rolex replica did this, perhaps what you do not have love, perhaps early HUAFA, full sideburns pale, but with such a friend, in the your life will ripple slightly, a little color, do you think of him. He remembered the quiet, perhaps the Health and cheap lotro gold the WHO will not forget.

    Am grateful for you in this world, there is such a person, he is replica rolex not around you, he did not do anything for you, but you hope that he would have been very good, long life, happiness well-being ... ...

    Am glad you had a feeling like that, pure and long, in this complex CHEAPEST power leveling world, there are such a friend, it is worth to cheap rs gold lbless you to miss ... ...

    ReplyDelete

Disqus for Youth Curry - Insight on Indian Youth