Friday, April 11, 2008

Welcome to Reservistan

Unable to fall asleep, I switched on the TV and found the SC judgement on OBC reservations dominating the news. The strange part was two different channels had two different versions of the same news.

CNN IBN claims IIMs are delaying admission letters by a week. And IIM Lucknow will implement the quota after 3 years.

Times Now says that Supreme Court is split on the question of whether quotas apply to post grad institutes. 3 out of 5 have ruled against, and hence the reservations do not apply to IIMs and AIIMS. The same view is reflected on by lawyer K Venugopal.

But there's more confusion.

The creamy layer is excluded but it is unclear who will define this layer and ensure the provision is implemented. There is also no clarity on important issues like:

- Does 27% reservation mean reservation of existing seats or will seats be increased as per declarations made by the government when this row first broke out in 2006.

- What will be the relaxation of entry criteria for OBCs? Will it be MANDATORY to fill these 27% seats even if an IIT is unable to get enough candidates who fulfil the relaxed criteria?

- Reservations should not be 'in perpetuity'. So how about at least reviewing SC/ ST reservations, to see the impact they have made so far. And also the OBC reservations implemented by some states?

Personally I do not believe reservation for OBCs is justified - if creamy layer is excluded then may as well make reservations for ALL on economic criteria alone. If we are to go the reservation route in the first place.

But if the Supreme Court has made its ruling, we have to accept it. And we have to figure out how to implement the quota in the spirit of the verdict, which is to uplift the underprivileged.

This would mean remedial measures and extra all round attention. Some would say it can't be done, that intervention is required at primary school level and not at age 16. 17. But let's say because of this verdict we have to try to compensate at college instead.

I think some % of the students will rise to the challenge. And they will become part of the mainstream as far as jobs and peers go. The rest will be absorbed by the government sector where OBC reservation is already in place...

Will the quality of the institutions suffer? Well, it might but I just can't get worked up about it anymore. Market forces will decide.

If quality suffers a great deal, students and recruiters will migrate elsewhere. Private institutions will blossom to fill the vaccum. The government might then say, private institutes also have to reserve seats. And also private companies. That may or may not be upheld by the courts.

The merry go round will continue. Whether 'social justice' can be engineered thus I don't think we will know - in our lifetime.


  1. It's high time reservations should be done with. Those who are economically backward can easily get scholarships in instituions like IIT's and IIm's.

    Otherwise the government can provide a small percentage of rservation ONLY if the vandidates are economically backward and not by caste basis.

    As Narayan Murthy rightly said "India is the only country where people fight to be recognised as backward". Shame on us.

  2. I thought you would read the complete judgment before coming to any post.

    Here it is if you haven't already got it:

  3. loved you last line -The merry go round will continue. Whether 'social justice' can be engineered thus I don't think we will know - in our lifetime!
    thats sum it up all so beautifully :)

  4. Cnngress Regime has given following in these 5 years:

    1) Inflation
    2) Price-rise of each and every household thing
    3) Gas price touching the sky
    4) Volatility of stock market..People hv lost all their savings in it..
    5) Cancelation of POTA and soft corner for terrorists..
    6) Appeasement of Muslims to the extent that they are neglecting Supreme court's order and delaying the hanging of Afzal Guru - the prime suspect of Indian parliament attack incident

    and last but not the list

    7)additional 27% quota for OBC in IIM, IITs and other educational institutes..So figure comes out to 49% now..It will be a curse to take a bitrh as patel, brahmin and bania now...

    Hail to the victors..Hail Sonia..Hail COngress..

    Thank u Congress for letting me realise that I hv done a bloody blunder by coming back to India after my MS in USA..

    I m goin back abroad!! Period !!

  5. @ surendra...can you or someone put across the highlights of the "complete judgement"??
    best part was to listen to some MPs on inclusion of MPs/MLAs in creamy layer....
    i think there will be more writs filed just before the elections and it will again get a stay clearance will come in next elections...and it will go on and on and on..

  6. Another amazingly clear and 'crisp' summary of the issue - the reason I love your blog.

  7. Without doubt, this is one of worst judgment I've seen the SC make. Come on, its the supreme court, you aren't supposed to divide the country in casts, its already so much!
    What I feel is that its one step going back in time, going back to the 60's and the 70's. One one side, we are saying we are going to be the economic superpower, the knowledge superpower and what not, and on the other we have the SC asking the countrymen to make sure that they know what cast they belong to.
    I myself am waiting for my final IIM results, delay of the results is not haunting me. Infact my future doesn't haunt me as well. I have made up my mind, that just in case I don't get into the IIM this time around, I'd make a move to the US. My country and my judiciary has betrayed me. More so, I am thinking about my kids. In the age where we already have cutthroat competition, things are not getting any better with this judgment. *Sigh*
    One most basic question still gets unanswered. What is the government doing about the primary education? How about making quota mandatory in schools, and even in the private schools. I know it seems weird, but how this helps is that it will try and remove the lag that one has because of being one in 'OBC' and by the time they come out of school, am sure they are as 'normal' as anyone else in the country.
    I also feel that giving a quota also makes these people complacent. If you tell me that i dont have to study as hard as the other people, because I am an unprivileged privileged, I won't, right! So where and how do I grow?
    One other weird solution (but less weird that the judgment) is that in a generation only one person can make use of this quota. If a father has studied in a national college his children should not get a quota! Simple! In this age of computers, the database in not very hard to maintain.

    High time, this thing is thought over again or else, the brain drain is BACK!

  8. All and Rashmi,

    Please read the SC verdict in its entirety before coming to any conclusion. Its not what you think it is. What is shown on News Channels is a skewed picture.

    Here is the link for the verdict:

  9. This is simplification of what I have been saying, without anybody needing to understand the verdict completely:

  10. The supreme can just make a law about excluding the creamy layer, implementation is a different thing, peope will find ways and means to get around the law

  11. Like you said, the problem is with perpetuity. If reservations are implemented, we should first set goals to ensure that we can create a society where reservations are no longer needed. I don't see how the caste system will ever end at this rate!

  12. what a thought provoking post! kudos, ma'am..

  13. off topic
    check out & give ur comments

  14. As you said, I think if we must have reservations at all, economic reservations are slightly more sensible.

    That said,I've been through the CET admission system in Karnataka myself, and I know for fact, that once there's a reservation, of any sort, with it will come a hoard of devious, undeserving candidates that will in some unethical (if not illegal) way, show themselves to be a part of one of these categories.

    There's always going to be some random ambiguity that'll lead to multiple interpretations.

  15. There is no point in reacting only when it concerns YOU. We are a democracy. Vote bank politics is very important for a party to be in power. If the majority of the nation is backward, the Government must do something to win their votes, because we have made the MLA and MP seats very lucrative with high returns. Hence no one wants to lose the seats. There is no point in wanting a reversal of this judgement, when this is just the tip of a huge ice-berg. If the MLA and MP's would have to live only by their salaries, would they indulge in such electoral skulduggery? I dont blame them for corruption either. I blame YOU, US. It is because we accept to give, that they take. It is because we are prepared to join our kids in good schools/colleges by giving donations, even though they dont deserve it, that our education standards are reaching new lows. The reservations are a different kind of bribes for the masses, to win elections. I am in full support of bribes called reservations anywhere, as long as the rich class of this nation is not ashamed of giving bribes called donations to join lucrative UG and PG courses. Both are the same.

  16. @destination Infinty - Friend, you have posed more questions than answers. Believe me, in history, no war has ever resulted in peace, and your solution is almost the same. There is no doubt that the problem that you raised, is a very genuine one, the 'management seats' and 'donations' are slowly eating up the education system, but am sure there are solutions to that. Am you know what, giving Quotas, is only going to aggravate it. Come to think of it my friend, we now have even lesser seats! And there are people with so much money stuffed up in the wallets that they know with so less seats and so more competition, their kids dont stand a chance! Who loses? the Merit student loses in the whole process.
    --> SC's feel no pinch, no gain no loss
    --> the OBC's get more seats
    --> The colleges seeing the 'market forces' know donations will work more than they used to. They gain
    --> The rich people have the moolah to 'donate' They don't mind that.
    --> Who loses? The meritorious people.

    SO when you compare Giving quota to giving donations, i think you missed the consequences of these in the long run.
    Lets try and improve things, not give an eye for an eye!

  17. Reservations should be on Income
    not on caste

  18. There is frankly not much that is new in this opinion. I am somewhat surprised to see the reactions here given this fact. This is simply a restatement of the central holdings of Indra Sawhney (1992). Read Jeevan Reddy's opinion there and all the comments and remarks of judges in this controversy aside, you will see that there is absolutely nothing unexpected in either of the outcomes (upholding of quota or removal of creamy layer) today. The only new thing would have been if the Court had also ruled on the basic structure challenge to the 93rd Amendment but not being directly concerned with the questions before the Court in this case, 3 out of 5 judges chose not to go into it thus leaving it open for review later. I would therefore reserve all my outrage for what is likely to come soon - a likely amendment to the Constitution to undo the exclusion of the creamy layer as directed by the Court today. There are already enough signs of that in the press today.

  19. Hi Rashmi, In the SC Verdict the below is being pointed out and this is how the Govt of India is interpreting it =>

    Mr. Justice Bhandari virtually ruled out any quotas for OBCs in the IIMs, saying that a graduate (the basic qualification to enter IIM) was educationally forward and “ineligible for special benefits.” Since three of the Judges had stated that graduation was the benchmark for determining backwardness, it was interpreted to mean that graduates from among OBCs would be ineligible for admission to IIMs.

    But, significantly, while Mr. Justice Bhandari talks about the exclusion of ‘graduates,’ Mr. Justice Pasayat favours the identification of the socially and educationally backward classes with ‘graduation’ as the basis; nowhere does he talk about excluding graduates. Thus, Mr. Justice Bhandari’s observations must be construed as a minority view that is not binding on the other four judges, it is being pointed out.

  20. I guess, news-channels only show what SELLS. that pretty much accounts for what they telecast n what not.
    Neways... likd d post. coz u hv merged all views n very convincingly done dat.

  21. Hello Ms Bansal, As one of the prominent bloggers of India, I expected you to have a balanced approach to this debate. Unfortunately it is not so. Anyhow I will put my points and be ready to be dissed by your readers.

    1. This 'new' reservation is not going to reduce the number of seats anywhere. So what is the grouse ? What is that which goes against to the people who would apply in general quota ? Clearly it not the worry of their own chances getting diminished, but the worry that others might become equal to them in future.

    2. Secondly creamy layer is someone whose parents earn 2.5lac gross in a year. You can guess how little this amount is, so all those people who have had a worthwhile education, would not be able to do it in total income of 2.5 lac.

    3. Your point about what is the basis of being disadvantaged. How can you ignore our age old, hierarchial society based on classes. Caste is the sole criteria of someone being disadvantaged socially. Even today you can see how those from backward caste are treated in Indian society. If that was not the case then in present times, all caste would have proportionate representation in all sectors. It isn't in proportion but skewed. So somewhere down the line, something went long and one strata of society got a lead and the others don't. Reservation is one way to give them that lead, the lead which was negated to them long time ago.
    4. If you also think about the quality of people passing out from colleges, then please remember graduation does not depend on entrance, it depends on going through the course and passing it. Is there any lowering of marks in the passing exam for getting degree ?

    Could you please tell me one single point, how reservation is hurting those who are against it. I

  22. @Smokin Joe - When I Compared giving donations to reservations, I was saying that both result in the same consequence - Degradation of Educational standards.This is what I am more concerned about.

    Why nobody raises even a little noise against the donations? Is it because mostly only the rich and educated (moneyed) classes read blogs and participate in the discussions? Is it because, WE have shamelessly paid donations and other high fees and would not hesitate to do the same when it would come to our kids also, that we dont raise this issue? (This may not concern the IIM type of colleges, Ofcourse). In this situation, what would the economically backward classes do when they are first - not encouraged to study, second - no money to pay donations?

    I am seriously less concerned about the above issue, when it comes to the degradation of our educational standards. Both the rich and the poor classes are doing this to-geather. When you start looking at education as a commodity that can be sold (either in exchange of money or votes), people do not know how to measure the proficiency of education, bought thus. So, they start by just comparing the marks, which is the easiest thing to do. Now, how the students get those marks is the question - Whether MUGGING UP and MEMORIZING most of the concepts and equations (especially in colleges) BLINDLY, without understanding, is not increasing in the present system? Dont you think it is plainly because of the degradation of teaching and evaluation methods? We are not concerned about all this because we have already spent so much money (or votes) so we need our kid to pass with as high distinction as possible. How they do it, what they do to get the marks, are they able to apply the concepts studied to practical situations in work are some of the questions which neither seem to concern the parents, nor the students.

    Dont you think this is a problem?

    Destination Infinity.

  23. @Destination Infinity - My friend, I cannot agree to you more. The problem you are raising is no doubt something to ponder upon. However, two wrong don't make a right. My first argument is that the two things could and should be separated, the Quota system is different, the quality of education is another thing.
    Second, when you say donations, let me tell you one thing. Donations, as far as I know, and correct me if am wrong, are not a part of the government funded colleges. India has a part which is capitalistic as well, and educational institutions are no different. There are a lot of the private institution which indulge in these 'donations' act. However the scope of the discussion and the impacting colleges here are the government funded institutes. That is why i feel these are two different issues.

    As coming to the problems that you have posted, I've already said they are grave, however not graver than the basic issue, primary education. This is the area where the government should be looking at before they want to do bigger things like obc quota et al.

    Well what am arguing is upon one single entity, how is this quota system going to help us? Are the OBC's (and lets not say weaker section's cause in an economy like india a weaker section should be based on finance not status) really getting a good deal here? Or is it that in this whole issue, its just that a lot of deserving people (who happen to be non OBC's non SC/ST's) are going to get disillusioned and run off to other places?

    Doesn't this simply seeming like vote bank politics?

  24. The recent news of Supreme Court of India giving its nod to OBC reservation in premier Medical, Engineering and Management Schools is really disappointing for me and many others who feel that its time for resurgent India and our past baggages are only things which are holding us back. Let me be clear I am not supporter of Castism or neither I am against any caste. But this whole issue is so deeply flawed that I am not sure about its effectiveness.

    As I have written in my earlier blogs that castes or classes were prevalent part of all ancient societies. I can say by studying our ancient scriptures like Bhagwat Gita and Veda that birth to someone was not the deciding factor of any one's caste. Even Magasthenese, The Greek Ambassador in court of King Chandragupta Maurya writes in his book Indica that there were some Seven castes in India. Lord Shri Krishna clearly says in Gita that birth is not the basis of anyone's caste. Its the balance of Three Guna, Sattva, Rajas and Tamas which decides anyone's caste or class. The higher the portion of Sattva Guna, more chances are that the person will be of Brahman in nature. Again the word Brahmin means one who knows the Brahma or the supreme reality. In that sense anyone can be a Brahmin if he or she has the caliber to achieve so. Right now too Baba Ramdev or Mata Amtrita Anandmayi are the real Brahmins and no one asks about their castes before bowing in front of them.

    In every society on earth , in any time past or present, the ruling class is always small in compare to the people being ruled. So in US or in Europe you will see nexus of Politicians, Bureaucrats and big corporations which is ruling class, In Africa its warlords and like wise in India presently its nexus of corrupt politicians, criminals and bureaucrats which is ruling class. This ruling class although small in number, if gets corrupted simultaneously then it spells doom for the nation. In ancient times most of the Kings found their source of power flowing down from the wise men or priest class or Brahmins. If that priest class was getting selected on basis of their knowledge then its good for larger benefit of the common people. But only a good king will choose good advisers or priests. In my view the powerful class always likes the status quo as this benefits them and their families. They oppose change and generally dont allow many people to enter their class as it will make that power or source of wealth getting distributed in some more people and their share will become less.

    In the similar fashion majority of the Brahmins, with help of ruling class made this castes mandatory on the basis of birth and it became more rigid as time passed. Its most ugly form was seen in 18th and 19th century, where there were many atrocities done on people on basis of castes. But there have been many atrocities similar to what we had in Europe and US too. I always had the view that a historical wrong cant be made right by another historical wrong. The time which is gone was different and what we have in present is different. I know that none of us ever asks about anyone's caste before going out and making friends with them. Its still there in case of marriage but I dont think that it will stay for long.

    Every one should realize that there are many poor among the so called upper castes and I was one of them. I wasnt born with silver spoon and whatever I have now is because my parents made me work hard to study as they saw that it was the only way out. With God's help and some hard work I have achieved what I have now. The only time when I realized that I am a Brahmin by caste was the time when I had to fill forms for engineering colleges after passing 12th standard. I realized that although I had way higher marks in competitive exams than my classmates, they got really good government colleges, free books, calculators, drafters and scholarship. Just because they were of some lower castes they got everything better than me at that time. In all those cases all my classmate's father had the same income as my father did. And with that income my father had to take care of a large family like other so called lower caste families. Many of my classmates were not studying as hard as I did. I failed to understand why I am getting punished for what I havent committed. I consoled myself by thinking that it may be collective Karma of my ancestors. The Indian private sector came to my rescue after my studies and I got a great job from campus. I didnt tried much for govt jobs as seats were really less and all govt of india cared about is caste and nothing else.

    I believe in affirmative action for disadvantaged section. But do you all really think that poverty has got anything to do with somebody's caste now? Its altogether a different time we are living in now. The policy which was meant for elevating status by giving someone freebies in education and jobs has just become a source of votes. Its really strange that Dr Bhimrao Ambedkar himself wanted the quota system just for 10 years and you see that even after 18 years the list of backward castes is not decreasing. It keeps on increasing every year. This policy is not serving the most disadvantaged and really creating a much wealthy layer among the backwards and they are the ones who are having the benefit of reservation again and again. Many backward castes like Yadav and Jats were rulers of some part of India. Lord Krishna was himself bought up by this Yadav clan and I really fail to understand how come his caste is among backward one? The most comical thing is to be seen in Tamil Nadu, where the state government is having 70% reservation and everybody wants themselves to be proven as more backwards then others. I mean whats going on.

    The real help was needed for dalits which includes all SCs and STs and I dont think they are getting benefited from this policy in large numbers. The actual benefit is siphoned off by OBCs who have different quotas but simultaneously have all the means for getting good education by working hard. OBC families are well off like many general category families and reservation is giving them unfair advantage. We all cry for level playing field in Global forums but in India itself we are not treating all citizens equal. Making caste as sole criteria of reservation in education, jobs and promotions is deeply flawed mistake. We need good scientists and professionals to take India to its rightful place and I dont think that reservation policy in its present form helping it anyway.

    Thats why I hate Congress and Nehru Gandhi clan so much. They are responsible for not providing good primary education to Indians. If it was provided and made compulsory for all Indians since independence , I think we wouldnt have been facing many problems as we are facing today in India. If congress wants reservation than it should first reserve Prime Minister's post to Indians and not some Italian Mama.

    The solution is affirmative action and not some mindless reservation. I dont know why these political leaders doesn't think of poor among all Indians, why they still want to further divide my motherland on caste lines. The only answer is politics of votes. Its only awakening and mass awakening which can solve this problem. May Go d direct our intellect in right direction.

    Vande Mataram
    Jai Hind

  25. TUC… or whosoever you are .. I would like to answer your questions

    1)Do u really think that those who are getting admission through reservation in any way equal to those who are getting admission through general(irrespective of castes) category? The question is not reduction of seats of general category, Its about what kind of things you want to promote in Today’s India. I am not opposed to affirmative action but mindless reservation on basis of caste.

    2} I was born in a poor Brahmin family and I worked my way up through my hard work and support of my parents and God’s help. I saw myself that those who never came close to me in terms of marks to me in school and college, got government job and good college. My father’s income in 1997 was 5,000 rs per month and he has to manage a family with my studies. He did it by cutting his needs and not wasting any money on alcohol and Tobacco. Me and my brother made it where we are because we knew we had to work hard and that’s the only way. There are many poor families in so called upper castes and you must know that they are human too.

    3)Caste as sole criteria for reservation is so deeply flawed that after 18 years no caste is out of that backwardness. The list for backwards is growing each year. Please answer how come Yadavs and jats are backward when they ruled many parts of India? How come Chettiars and Mudaliars in south are backwards despite being so rich? Your own PC Chidemberam and Ramdoss is of backward caste and their children can get benefit of reservation, do you really think you want these type of backwards in India?

    4)Even after passing exams of 4 years in some 6- 8 years, people get the government job on basis of their castes. Do you really think you need doctors and engineers , scientists in India like these?

    Don’t you think that reservation on basis of caste promotes complacency in education, where someone thinks that despite having low numbers they can get a job? Think about it and reply me back..

    Jai HInd

  26. This comment has been removed by the author.

  27. (the prev posted comment had errors .. could you pls display this instead)

    @Himalayan Swatika - It couldn't be put better ! I agree...
    People should take a stand and make recognition of caste as criminal. Sounds outrageous i know, but any other measure will perpetuate this caste system. Which clearly is proving to have no benefits whatsoever, and causing regression.

    You see, Indian mentality (or human maybe) is such. Unless fined heftily we will not stop jumping signals. Unless punished we will not stop breaking rules. We NEED a fence. Very much unlike the Developed Nations. They follow rules! They don't need monitoring! Is it because most of them are educated? (i'm talking about the majority of population).

    Like HS mentioned above, education should have been made compulsory. Not too late. They can still implement it. But, they won't. Since, the "rulers" must suppress the masses. Must be one up on them. Else they'll come claiming for their place soon. Like how Indians before Independence learned English, got educated, went to Cambridge and Oxford, traveled and learned and wrote about how nations are fighting against being ruled, how it is possible to up throw the British Rule.

    So, I feel, the intellectuals (people who really think and feel about such issues, and evils in society etc ) should do something about it. Of course, discussion is the first step. But, if we strongly feel about it, we should DO something about it. If every generation leaves the problems to the next, then the problem will keep on getting more aggravated.

    But I'm a little skeptical. I think humans by nature love groupism. But the caste system and reservation can be done with. At least, things stop being "unfair" that way. Though there will be other issues to deal with.

    Caste cannot be abolished at one go. It will shake the country. It can be done in a phased manner. And education for everyone, too. These are two most imp issues to be dealt with. But , the govt will never take these steps. Cos ppl who become politicians are not there because they're honest and intend the best for their country. They put their self interests first.

  28. The reservation genie now needs to be bottled.Its doing away with the whole notion of ability and merit.India must be the only country where people are ina rush to be included in the list backward groups.

  29. I like the name Reservistan. Apply for a trademark soon; it might come to more use in the future.

    Having said that, I think one shouldnt worry unduely about this reservistan. Obviously, the quality of these brands IITs, MBBSes is going to go down due to this.

    Industry looks at merit, not brands. They will take into consideration the fact that a particular person is from a reserved category before hiring.

    The problem is with the areas where a mafia is operating. Example medical. Given the fact that IMA requires an MBBS degree to practise allopathic medicine, merit can get seriously undermined there.


  30. I think it is fair to allow 27% reservation for OBC and 23% for SC/ST. The thing that should be made transparent is that how a community should be declared OBC, or SC/ST. Creamy layer stuff is a big bullshit. I do not want to study in an institute where 50% of the students do not have a jeans to wear. I want to be with cool people. And I am not going to study in college where there are just poor people!!

  31. Just out of curiosity, do you ever read this part of the blog Rashmi?

  32. good article...nicely written....

  33. I am amused by the way our HR ministry thinks it will benifit the nation!!
    The people who do not even represent 7% of the Indian population are entitled to 49% reservation in educational institutes!!where will they get this much number of ppl to fill the 49% quota??
    The institutes will themselves suffer by sacrificing quality and let morons be inducted in their institute to fill the quota seats - i guess thats why many instis are creating more seats so that at least they are left with some quality ppl!

  34. This judgment is surely going to effect the quality of IIM or IIT's.

    Why the govt. can't do anything at the bottom level, why not they implement such a scheme where they can provide best education to any OBC, in school level itself. Is it necessary to give 49 % (equal to half) of reservation to the OBc's?

    Let the guys to come to the IIM or IIT level & let them perform. If they can't perform (like the General's), they don't have any right to be there.

    The quota should be puruly on merit basis not on cast basis.


  35. Well, we should as a society analyze the impact of every decision taken. Let that decision be taken 10-20 or even 50 years back. But is the facility reaching the people. Is there any improvement. Are the beneficiaries seeing better times? If yes, good, then do we need to reduce the benefits given, cause the upliftment is happening. Things are better than before. If no, then wat is the reason for the failure. Who is responsible and what should be reaction be.

    Instead, what we follow is the John Lennon theory. LET IT BE, LET IT BE... Things once put into place will remain the same forever and ever. If another 150 Tsunami's come and go. The OBC, SC/ST quota will still remain. Let all the OBC/SC/ST people become millionaires, yet the quota will remain...

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