Monday, May 22, 2006

"Manmohan Sir's IIT Entrance Classes"

Finally, the first sensible proposal from the government on the reservations issue. The Sunday Express reports:

The PMO has come up with a unique proposal... the government will identify the top 1000 OBC and SC/ ST students from the merit list of the Joint Entrance Exam who did not make it to IITs.

These students will be invited to undergo a one-year 'specialised training' programme to bring them on par with general category students. While the centre will fund the infrastucture of these training colleges, the private sector will pay a cess of Rs 100,000 as vouchers for these institutions...

Even general category students can get training in these specialised colleges but they will have to pay tuition fees...


Point to be noted is that IITs already have a preparatory course . A bit about how this came into being. Reservations for SCs and STs were first introduced in IITs in 1973

When this was done as per the Chandy Committee recommendations (1972), which specified that the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes be taken into IITs 'down to the zero mark at the Joint Entrance Examination (JEE)' (31), the results were 'disastrous'. Most of the first batch of dalit and adivasi students found it extremely difficult to cope at the IIT and were failed or forced to drop out.

Hence, 'the system of a two-thirds cut-off point at the JEE as the more reasonable alternative' was suggested in 1977. 'In 1978 all the IITs adopted the system which continues to be used till today' (32).


A preparatory course was introduced in 1983...

As the seats for the SC/ST students are often unfilled because adequate number of students from these categories do not qualify JEE with relaxed norms, a further relaxation of JEE norm is made to select students for a one year Preparatory Course. On passing the course successfully, the students are admitted to the First year of B.Tech./M.Sc... All students in the Preparatory Course are eligible for free messing in the hostels and receive a pocket allowance of Rs 70/- per month.

IIT Madras takes 30-40 students under this scheme every year , while IIT Bombay had about 53 students (29 SC and 24 SC) in preparatory courses in the year 2002.

In fact at the 2002 convocation, it was noted that for the first time in the history of IIT Bombay, a Preparatory Course Student - Mr. Chinmay Karsandas Patel who joined the course in 1997, had been awarded the silver medal on graduating from the Department of Aerospace Engineering.

That says something about what a preparatory course, combined with the individual's willpower and desire to excel can achieve.

Sadly, some who speak on behalf of dalits choose to see this differently.

In 1983, the Preparatory Course was conceived, thus further blocking the prospects of dalits/adivasis.

Ambedkar.org quote a study "Equality Through Reservations", by Viney Kirpal and Meenakshi Gupta based on data collected from IIT students belonging to batches beginning 1989 to 1992.

Students who score below the two-third JEE cut-off point and "x" marks are assigned to the Preparatory Course where they are given one year's rigorous training. On obtaining a certain percentage of marks in Physics, Chemistry, Mathematics and English at the end of the year, they are registered for the First year of BTech, failing which they are asked to leave so that they may join some other college.

The SC/ST students may pass the programme with a reduced number of credits, i.e., 22 credits per semester as compared to 28 credits for the GE students. Nonetheless, to earn the BTech degree, they have to complete the total number of credits common for all (categories of students).

The unique aspect of reservations in IITs is the total absence of compromised standards (such as grace marks awarded to SC and ST students). The concessions offered end with the reduced cut-off point at entry, the reduced course load during the semester and the six years (against the five for GE students) to complete the four-year BTech programme. The degree awarded is on a par with the GE students...


Ambedkar.org conclude:"The authors, while admittedly concerned with how best the disprivileged students can 'integrate' with the 'mainstream' at IIT, are not even alive to the inherent discrimination wrought into the idea of a prep course..."

A strange, very strange attitude.

The "Equality through Reservations" study found that 75% of students in the preparatory course found it to be helpful. However, I could not find statistics on how many students actually passed the course and got admitted to IIT.

Despite these efforts, 50% of seats reserved for SCs/STs remain empty.

Is a scale-up possible?
So now, the government wishes to give 1000 OBC/ SC/ ST students intensive training for one year. The objective is laudable. But the real achievement would be if these students are actually able to enter IIT at par with the others.

ie. After one year, they take JEE again and get in through their own merit. Without fulfilling a numerical quota or reservation of any kind.

Challenging? Like hell. But that should be the ultimate goal.

At the end of the day, what is merit?
a) Strong basic foundation
b) Conducive environment
c) Will to succeed


Of course, one year may certainly not be enough. A better way would be to take very bright backward students - identified through some scheme similar to National Talent Search. Then, given the right learning environment over 2-4 years and their own desire to succeed, there is no reason they should require a relaxation in norms at entry or exit level.

In the longer run, of course, there is no substitute to raising the standard of government schooling as well as access to private education. As a stark statistic from NGO Pratham's rural study in 28 states and UTs reveals.

93.4 % of children between age 6-14 are enrolled in school. 41% in 7-14 age group cannot do either 2 digit subtraction or division (3 digit by 1 digit)


In this scenario, finding students who have been able to build a strong foundation -despite the school system - is like searching for an investor making money in the current stock market. Of course, such dudes exist. But they're the exceptions, strong enough to swim against the tide!

Back to basics
Now all of the above makes sense if the people for whom extra efforts and/ or concessions are being made are truly backward. Reality Check India however tells us otherwise. This blog has really delved deep into the 'OBC' tangle. I quote here a few of the facts presented which speak for themselves. (quotes in brackets are mine)

Even 16 years after the Mandal Commissions recommendations, Tamil Nadu has not even taken steps to identify the creamy layer.(So why should we believe it will happen at a national level?)

Reservation has taken a totally new meaning here, it is no longer (was it ever) about social justice... It is now about demanding as a birthright a cut of medical seats based on caste. (I just learnt that even Vaishyas - or banias - are considered backward in TN!)

A very significant percentage of medical students are second or third generation doctors from OBC communities.

A totally broken system is currently in place. The current system is totally political in nature, for example ALL Christians and Muslims in TN, AP are considered backward.


So we should not be surprised by this Asian Age report

Dr Ramadoss (Union Health Minister) opposed the introduction of a "creamy layer" in reservation for OBCs in elite educational institutions. "There is no mention of creamy layer in the Constitution and we follow the law of the land," he told a private TV channel.

Dr Anbumani himself is the son of a doctor and in Tamil Nadu his son too will be eligible for the quota.

Reality Check goes on to note:
This is the problem with the system ! Different people have different views about the quota system. For many the quota system has nothing to do with social justice at all, it is just a mechanism of preferential treatment. They cannot understand why a high economic and living standard should be a basis for losing that preferential treatment.

Ah, but the rest of India can't understand how anyone can justify something like that! What the striking doctors are demanding is absolutely right. A non-political panel must be set up to review the idea of reservations. Who is 'deserving', who has benefitted so far and how the problem it set out to address can be tackled through alternative solutions.

There must be a time frame to phase out reservations... first for specific communities and then for the country as a whole.

And to actually clamour for reservation - even if you're not backward?That should be as socially unacceptable and sick as asking to be admitted under the physically handicapped category because you got a shoebite from a state of the art Nike sneaker.

40 comments:

  1. As usual, a good one Rashmi. Could you please provide the exact link (right now it leads to the homepage) to the Sunday Express article which mentions PMO's proposal?

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  2. I was thinking that why you (who takes the most relevant and burning topics) have taken so much time to write something on the most burning issue today...Better late than never...and as lot of people read ur blogs so please atleast make people aware of the scenario as in today and its consequences...some of the most interesting thoughts can be found in below addresses:
    :

    http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=68082

    Interview of Arjun Singh: http://www.ibnlive.com/news/devils-advocate-arjun-singh/11063-4.html

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  3. I agree with the fact that creamy layer should be used, but it should NOT be based on wealth, but based on the education of the parents.

    by the way, you should know that the Cut off for MBBS Course in Tamil Nadu is some thing like this

    Open Quota - 296/300
    BC - 295/300
    SC - 294/300

    In fact there is NOT EVEN ONE PERCENTAGE difference between the last candidate admitted under general quota and the last candidate admitted under SC Quota

    Also, out of the 500 seats in Open Category, Forward Community take about 30 to 40 seats.

    This kind of social transformation is possible in Tamil Nadu because of RESERVATION THAT WAS INTRODUCED ONE GENERATION AHEAD.

    I was surprised to note that there is a preparatory course of SC/ST in IIT.

    WHere as in Medical COlleges, the candidates perform ON PAR with other candidates.

    If you want such thing to happen in IIT give reservation of OBC and wait for 25 years.

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  4. Merit is the conquest of individualism over collectivism.

    If there is something called stupidity exists in this world then this is the best example of it. How can we be so stupid to vote someone like him...??? Well...I'm an OBC student. And I never felt need for reservation. From a very small village of Bihar, I managed to come to the best institute in country i.e. IIT and I never needed any sort of reservation. (My father is a farmer. So, dont apply wealthy or creamy funda.)

    Merit here

    What those uncivilized brutes do not understand is that the current educational system in our country is the greatest leveller of all. All you need is a few books and a desire to succeed. Yeah, expensive coaching might help but the marginal gains are very little.

    Barbarindians

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  5. Dr. Bruno,

    Beg to disagree. For reference, please check out this blog:

    Reality Check

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  6. Sorry Rashmi, don't intend to spam your blog.

    Marks of LAST candidates entering TN medical colleges:

    Open Quota - 296/300
    BC - 295/300
    SC - 294/300

    What's wrong with this picture people?

    LAST candidates scoring over 99% marks? Are you insane? What does it tell you about standards?

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  7. Really. Read that Arjun Singh interview. Then you too, like me, will be convinced that the day is not too far off when a person can basically, post-high school, gets into IIT, then IIM, and then a plum job, all via reservations.

    Sigh...

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  8. That is one of the most well written pieces on reservations that i found on the web...

    for those of you interested on more views on the topic, there are a bunch of links at Indiagram

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  9. Do you think the problem is actually solved by identifying the extremely bright candidates from the OBC section? Infact, the problem was never with the Bright or identifying them. The fundamental problem as I understand is in providing opportunities to those sections who are unable to make themselves competition-worthy due to social, cultural and economic factors. and even regional. Now this definetely goes beyond the whole "identifying the bright" equation. That would be the easy way out and it doesn't serve the purpose. There is a huge chunk of our youth in rural areas who are simply not aware (of anything). Speak to them about skills that make them market friendly.. and they laugh in amusement. And for many, who are busy clearing debts for their families, it is not in their priorities too. Identifying only the bright, which is subjective, leaves an awful lot of them out. again.

    Another decisive factor in implementing such large-scale programmes is our ability to accurately conceptualize and map the execution. We really need social-scientists, minus the skewed, neanderthal data our govt possesses, to ensure stern implementation. I have written a bit about this factor in my blog - www.spaces.msn.com/bohemianreflections

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  10. IIT Bombay students are on a hunger strike even as I write this. I'll be putting up some details here. Some photographs are also up on flickr

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  11. I am not very sure of this, but can anyone find out what were the reservation /quota in engineering colleges abt 10 yrs back ? I entered (and succesfully graduated !) REC {now NIT} Rourkela in 1995 (in the general quota) by appearing in the MP Pre-engg test , choosing one of the 7 general seats available for MP in REC, Rkl. If i remember correctly, there was arnd 49% quota at that time too (15% SC, 7.5% ST, and abt 27% OBC). Can anyone verify this for me please?

    On the same point, i do recall hearing at that time that TN has abt 83% quota !!! Of course, at that time, almost everyone belonged to some quota or the other...so that was ok.

    If thats the case, what is happening now is that this OBC is being introduced is places like IITs, and PG courses in medical schools.

    Also, see article in ET abt quota in AIIMS PG for AIIMS UG students !!!
    http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1543267.cms

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  12. There are basically two approaches to the issue of making all segments of the society to participate in an economic activity in which anyone is interested.Reservation is the easiest to do but may not be the right solution in the long run.By reserving you are only removing the entry barriers.Easy to enter need not ensure success.If entry itself is considered as an indicator of success then obviously we are sacrificing something else.But at the same time,people coming fom the less priveleged section( in the real sense) should be given some kind of a support to enter and succeed.
    Preparing the capacity of those committed and competent(in a relative sense) would be the right thing to do.The problem would be scaling up the experiment.A recent editorial in The Hindu Business Line called for an incentive based mechanism to promote that kind of an institutional arrangement
    This particular piece definitely sheds further light on the thorny issue of Reservation.
    S.Gnana Haran.

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  13. My Forums talk about this as well.
    India Forums

    Its located at http://www.india-news.in

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  14. Rashmi, Everyone can understand what you have written. problem is with people like Arjun Singh who does not WANT to understand logic and there skin is as thick as Hippopotemus (hope i am not insulting Hippopotemous). See his interview with Karan thapper. he could not justify proposed reservation on a single question still he want it just giving the reason that parliament has pass it as if he has never opposed single decision by parliament.

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  15. here link to interview with karan thappar

    http://www.ibnlive.com/news/decision-on-quota-is-final-arjun/11063-4-1.html

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  16. One word....superb. Try entering the Parliament. We need gud debators there to take on likes on Arjun Singh ji.. We can't leave things to these oldies anymore.

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  17. We can shut the mouths of these politicians by asking them to have reservations in politics..like 50% for OBC's for all seats in parliament, 50% chief ministers should b from backward classes..n so on..if they accept to these...then all student community will accpet to what they say

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  18. Well said calvin. Mere identifying the best talent and making them ready for JEE will leave a lot of them back, who would have cleared the AIEEE if not IIT and so on. The whole program needs a large public funding, which would set up residential schools of high standards. Check out my comments on this issue at http://blakndwite.blogspot.com

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  19. Jaya, I could not find the exact link.. I read it in the print edition on pg 2, dt 21/5

    Calvin - IITs and IIMs only admit the brightest. So a scheme to nake them more representative of society can only aim to identify the brightest among those who are disadvantaged. The other large chunk of rural youth must be catered to by other good quality schools and colleges!

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  20. Hi Rashmi,

    While the arguments against reservation are pretty valid, it's also a real pity that ani-reservationists also have their weak spots. The guys at the vanguard of the current agitation, ie, the doctors at AIIMS need to look at their own protected quotas. I was horrified to note that AIIMS has a 33% reservation for their PG courses, for internal students. Before you wonder what is wrong, this 33% corresponds perfectly with the annual intake of graduates at AIIMS, all of 40. Result, frequently, AIIMS students with marks well below outsiders have been preferred, And the diffrentials are not too small, believe me, according to a study conducted by the Delhi HC over a five year period. This has also been declared 'bad in law' by it. No wonder, seeing these guys 'fight' for merit makes me lose my own will to stand by them...

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  21. Consumer,

    Please do not denigrate the medicos for the "quota" that you described. Let me ask you, a student with 8/10 GPA from IIT and another 9/10 from an NIT - who is better?

    The AIIMS admission policy is completely in line with what you should expect - preferential treatment of students who:
    a) proved their mettle in gaining entry through a tougher test
    b) attended a better college
    c) got his 8 GPA fighting against aces (not to mention in an undiluted curriculum still unsullied by a 50% reservation)

    Reservation is immoral

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  22. Whenever upper caste people talk about reservation they say that the beneficiaries of reservation are totally devoid of any competence and are the cause of the downfall of India, but consider this:


    1. For the last 60 years upper castes have had almost total control of the national politics. Vast majority of politicians in position of power have belonged to upper caste. Politicians who took out rath yatras and got thousands killed in the name of religion were all upper caste folks, those who led the killings of thousands of sikhs in delhi where all upper caste folks, those who led and covered the massacre of muslims in gujrat where primarily upper caste folks, everybody involved in tehelka scandal was upper caste, the leadership who gave away hundreds of thousands of acres of land to China and pakistan in the wars were upper caste (by the way the don't forget that defense minister who led the highly successful bangladesh war opertion was a dalit, Jagjivan Lal), all politicians involved in bofors scam were upper caste folks. Now tell me how can anybody say that upper caste people have been more competent than the beneficiaries of reservation. Have the dalit politicians like Mayawati been flawless ? absolutely not. But they are still a minority in India. Can someone tell me how the meritorious upper caste politicians have performed any better ?

    2.Till this date majority of judiciary positions in Higher/Lower Courts as well as the Supreme Court in India are held by upper caste folks. But there are millions of cases pending in those courts. It is a nightmare, to seek justice in India. So how can anybody claim that the upper caste folks have managed the judiciary any better than the beneficiaries of reservation?

    4. Till this date majority of the leadership positions in police and other law and order agencies are occupied by upper caste folks. But hundreds of rapes, murders, abductions and other crimes occur every hour in India. And the crime conviction rate in India is less than 10%. People are afraid to seek help from police. So who can say that those upper caste officers have shown higher competence?

    5.Give me the names or relevant data that shows that low caste doctors have hurt patients much more than the upper caste doctors. I can bet that if data were gathered, majority of doctors who do illegal abortions or those who have so far been leaving the instruments in patient's bellies would turn out to be upper caste people.

    6.Public health care system in India is in shambles. And who are the managers? Majority of them belong to upper caste. Who has ever pointed out a finger towards those upper caste folks during the anti-reservation demonstrations?

    7.There is no reservation in sports in India and upper caste folks manage all sports agencies. So where are the Olympic gold medals folks? Would some one tell me?

    8.India was in total control of upper caste rulers when invaders like the mughals and the british came. If the upper castes where so competent then how come they always suffered defeat in the hands of such invaders.

    9. Give me the data, which shows that the structures built by lower caste engineers were bad than those build by upper caste engineers. And I come from a family of civil engineers and I can for sure provide data, at least from my state, that the structures build by upper caste engineers fell down more often than those built under the supervision of lower caste engineers.


    So those pointing fingers at the dalits should first examine the big picture of how their own community has performed in the last 60 years.Nobody has any right to say that the beneficiaries of reservation are incompetent. Such statements are absolutely baseless.

    The media is controlled by the upper caste folks and is totally biased against the pro reservation voice. While everybody does hear about the upper caste candidates who couldn't get into post-graduate schools, nobody hears about the sons of cobblers who have become engineers and doctors because of reservation and are performing as good, if not better, than the upper caste people. And media never ever showcases such people, now do they?

    Those who are anti-reservation, forget that their great grandfathers were able to walk with self respect and do business in the Indian society when the dalits were forced to live outside the villages and towns and when dalits were banned from every temple, school and business. And this discrimination is still alive and kicking. It takes generations to gain a footing in the society.Let the dalits gain a footing in the society for another couple of hundred years and then make comments about equality.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Sonu,

    You are basically killing Peter to pay Paul. Read the stuff you have posted and do a little contemplation.

    Yeah, upper caste politicians are all bad guys, arent they. Hell , what bout Laloo, Paswans and Mulayams...

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  24. >> Till this date majority of the leadership positions in police and other law and order agencies are occupied by upper caste folks


    Sonu, that hilarious.. haha.. in fact its the other way round. Did you see how police mercilessly lathicharged doctors in Mumbai. :)

    Anyway, your basic assumption is wrong.. That *all* policemen are upper caste. That *all* corrupt politicians are upper caste.

    >>Give me the names or relevant data that shows that low caste doctors have hurt patients much more than the upper caste doctors

    So lower caste doctors dont hurt patients, is it ?? Or that nobody goes to them, so they never get a chance to hurt anyone. Damn,, swear right now, that you will never go to an upper caste doc if you fall sick. Can you.. ??

    >>> There is no reservation in sports in India and upper caste folks manage all sports agencies. So where are the Olympic gold medals folks? Would some one tell me?

    Haah.. ok, then, neither has any backward managed to win an Olympic gold medal.

    >>> If the upper castes where so competent then how come they always suffered defeat in the hands of such invaders.
    ==
    It would interest you to know that many many more atrocities were committed by Muslims on backward castes, than committed by forward castes.


    >>> Nobody has any right to say that the beneficiaries of reservation are incompetent.

    Some of them are not incompetent. Many of them are. Arent they??


    >>The media is controlled by the upper caste folks and is totally biased against the pro reservation voice.

    Ahhh we think its the other way round. Media favours seculo-liberal terrorism.


    >>nobody hears about the sons of cobblers who have become engineers and doctors because of reservation and are performing as good, if not better, than the upper caste people.

    Yeah, I know of sons of cobblers or rickshaw pullers or paan shop owners , who have become docs and engrs WITHOUT the need for reservations.

    If you think you are so much better than everyone else, why do you need reservations. You definitely can compete with others, win gold medals on your own merit, become engrs and doctors by yourself. Without reservations. Cant you?

    The British were defeated by Afghans. Does that make Afghanistan a better country than Britain.. ROFL.. come on dude, get a life. Think coolly and then post stuff.

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  25. I do not blame Sonu. After being weaned on welfare for generations, most folks do not realize that:

    a) Government does NOT produce any money
    b) India being a welfare state, 90% of our welfare is directed towards you know who
    c) Democracy does not equal imposing the views of a majority on a minority group.
    d) Fundamental rights can not be amended. That is why they are called fundamental.

    The indignant tone and his message is straight from Laloo Prasad Yadav's election campaign. The whole thing has become a distributive bargain.

    Reservation is immoral

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  26. Maybe we should let an athlete from SC/ST/OBC who runs slower than others represent India at the Olympics. That should fetch us a bunch of medals.

    In all their righteous indignation, these guys have forgotten how to put 2 and 2 together.

    Its a pity..

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  27. Spare this TN state please. Many students from this state make up a big working population which transformed Bangalore as IT capital... Majority of this crowd got seats through reservations...
    They pay taxes properly and work for its betterment unlike those useless IITians who suck Indian farmers' blood (read 'reserved categories'), feed well and jump out to US or any other country and comment shamelessly that "UK is great! US is great!! Afghanistan is worse..." out of selfishness, without even knowing who is our enemy and who is our friend. Who betrayed us? and who helps in fueling our cars, bikes, trucks, train engines etc. that are necessary for the economy to sustain.
    In short, IITs are of NO USE to our country.
    You are talking about atrocities of rulers from other religions... Who can forget the atrocities of ARYANS (or the so called "forward communities") to the people of India who were leading prosperous life during the ancient periods... These Aryans transformed the country of "Indus valley civilization" to a level that is pathetic today...
    Should this continue... Should the people who were strategized as lower cast by these upp. caste continue to live as such and these forward castes dominate the society. Should India's condition worsen still?
    Now you know why reservations are important.

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  28. In short, IITs are of NO USE to our country.

    Bravo.

    Let me ask you this backslash, who is the kingpin behind all these arguments? It seems that all the pro folks basically use the same language. First it was the anti-merit comment they used to spam with. Then came the TN example. Finally I am seeing a lot of this Aryan invasion theory. Who is your daddy? I want to have a one on one with him.

    I will give you a better logic. Communism. No one has been able to refute the communist logic as such, however from empirical results we know this does not work.

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  29. knock, knock... backslash

    Where are you .. Read up pal. The Aryan theory is a hoax. It was cooked up by British to divide and rule. There were no white aryans who plundered the Indus Valley. Search the net.

    The Indus valley civilization is what the Indians are. Nobody plundered the Indus Valley civilization, it was destroyed by geoclimatic changes. People migrated to other parts of the country.

    Search for genetic studies conducted by scientists, on the net, regarding this aryan hoax (which nazis too fell for stupidly).

    So now IITs are responsible for the ills of the country. hahaha.. LOL.

    Now I can guess why are you so pro-Afghanistan, and support reservations. Dont worry, Pakistanis have demanded reservations in IITs, and pretty soon, our secular govt is going to implement it.

    http://in.rediff.com/news/2006/may/23sheela.htm

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  30. Uff... Am I impressed??
    Its a small word, dear...
    I should say that I am really really impressed by your research and data on the whole reservation thingy..
    Good going...:)

    ReplyDelete

  31. Let me ask you this backslash, who is the kingpin behind all these arguments?

    Common sense and thinking without any personal bias. As simple as that.

    Finally I am seeing a lot of this Aryan invasion theory. Who is your daddy? I want to have a one on one with him.

    Me too want to have one-one with your daddy to make certain things clear to you!

    Search for genetic studies conducted by scientists, on the net, regarding this aryan hoax

    Good job! So you have hoaxed out everything...(There are web sites saying, man did not land on moon)
    Coming to reality, the same genetic studies have proved that Aryan invasion was indeed true. Try yourself, whatever you had suggested; but don't miss out the legitimate links that tell you truth, even if you post it here...

    Now I can guess why are you so pro-Afghanistan, and support reservations. Dont worry, Pakistanis have demanded reservations in IITs, and pretty soon, our secular govt is going to implement it.

    You have to work a bit harder!

    Any activity by any government that can knock off the domination of "forward classes" would definitely have a positive impact in the long term.

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  32. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  33. Hey "In The Shadows"
    >>Sonu, that hilarious.. haha.. in fact its the other way round. Did you see how police mercilessly lathicharged doctors in Mumbai. :)
    >>Anyway, your basic assumption is wrong.. That *all* policemen are upper caste. That *all* corrupt politicians are upper caste.

    I see that your suffered from a brain fart here. Mr. Meritorious, If you weren't a moron you would read that I said "majority of policemen and politicians". And you
    changed "majority" to "all". And you just have to get a list of the police officers who ordered the lathi charge to confirm my assertion.

    >>So lower caste doctors dont hurt patients, is it ?? Or that nobody goes to them, so they never get a chance to hurt anyone. Damn,, swear right now, that you will never >>go to an upper caste doc if you fall sick. Can you.. ??

    I don't have to freaking swear. I have always gone to low caste doctors so far and I have no complaints. I know low caste doctors who are considered the best among
    their colleagues in AIIMS, Escorts, you name it. Maybe you and your own relatives got treated by them and your ignorant little minds never imagined that they could be low caste.

    >>>Haah.. ok, then, neither has any backward managed to win an Olympic gold medal.

    You have again suffered a brain fart here, I was talking about the management of sports agencies. But alright, no backward has won olympic gold medal, how the heck
    does that make you superior than them. This is what you have been singing all along right, that you are superior and meritorious,


    >>It would interest you to know that many many more atrocities were committed by Muslims on backward castes, than committed by forward castes.
    Or really, why do you forget your L K Advani who took out the damn rath yatra and got thousands hindu and muslims killed in the riots. Or your Narinder Modi.

    >>Some of them are not incompetent. Many of them are. Arent they??
    Well, get your brain farts treated by an competent upper caste doctor, my friend.


    >>>Ahhh we think its the other way round. Media favours seculo-liberal terrorism.
    I read new daily feeds daily from several sources, and I don't see anybody talking much about pro-reservation lobby. That's all I wanted to present.


    >>>If you think you are so much better than everyone else, why do you need reservations. You definitely can compete with others, win gold medals on your own merit,
    >>>become engrs and doctors by yourself. Without reservations. Cant you?
    We never said we were better than everyone else. It is morons like you who keep on saying that. I only wanted to say that you are in no way better than us. What a bunch or jokers !!! Ok we can't win the gold medals on our own, where is the heck's name are the gold medals that you have won so far. Always come back from the olypics with your ass kicked by poor african countries.

    >>>The British were defeated by Afghans. Does that make Afghanistan a better country than Britain.
    No, but it did make afghans better warrior of that time, didn't it. Upper caste had total control of the country during the invasions that I mentioned and you got your ass
    kicked all over the place, that's all I wanted to say.

    >>ROFL.. come on dude, get a life. Think coolly and then post stuff.

    Don't you worry about my life buddy. Just keep ignoring who ever presents the other side of the story and you'll be fine. Maannn, I pity our meritorious intellect.

    ReplyDelete
  34. Me too want to have one-one with your daddy to make certain things clear to you!

    My daddy is Adam Smith, but he is no longer around.

    Who's yours? Arjun Singh?

    ReplyDelete
  35. Sonu/Backslash,

    About the Aryan invasion theory, please peruse this book by Dr. Ambedkar:

    Who were Shudras

    In this book, Ambedkar argues that the Shudras were originally Aryans belonging to the Kshatriya class.

    ReplyDelete
  36. Hi Anti-reservation idealogues, Instead of wasting your time protesting if you study you can make it to top 50%. Reservation is hear to stay, no amount of arguing is going to stop it. You pseudo-meritocrats, have you made any major scientific discovery which improved people's life in past 60 years. Have you created any major company other than body shopping firms ? Most of discoveries were made in the west, America mostly, an a free and open society which believes in diversity.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Er, doc, we strongly recommend you run a spell/grammar check on your comments.

    By the way, if no amount of arguing is going to stop reservations, why the f are you wasting your time?

    ReplyDelete
  38. 1.Why a wife needs reservation when his husband used reservation only last year to become a lecturer in a Govt university?
    2.Why a family earning 10 laks a year needs reservation just because they have SC/BC certificate?

    3.Why a person can use reservation more than 1 time in his life if he just needs an “opportunity” to come on the road of success.

    4. What will happen to the self respect and dignity of the person using reservation. How can such a person come out of inferiority complex in all his/her life when he used a wheel chair even when he was not a handicapped?

    5. Are not only few rich people using this reservation again and gain in their life. The real backward SC/BC are not even aware of such reservation?
    I myself belong to SC but could not get a seat in reservation. I know out neighbor whose father was Class-I officer and his son was all educated in Convent schools in English medium and he got admission in professional college using reservation. My father being a peon in a Govt College was not more deserving SC candidate? Why these greedy so called SC people don’t let real backward people to get their turn. Former president K.R. Narayanan’s daughter secured her entry into the Indian Foreign Service via the Dalit quota. Shame on these cunning politicians.

    6. Why we say only SC/BC/OBC are backward. Is not whole of India living in villages backward. Did not whole of India suffered thousands years of slavery and lived a miserable life?

    7. Are we not encouraging castism in India. I remember when studying in college when nobody cares about others caste. Are we not reminding and labeling a caste on each Indian now?

    8. I heard that landlords (Yadavs etc.) and Millionaires (Jewellers ‘Suniare’ ) are also considered backward OBC. Is this not bullshit!

    9. Do we any doubt now that Politicians are the most dirty class of humanity who create conflicts, wars to remain in power. This reminds me of Osho who spoke very boldly decades ago calling people to get rid of politicians?

    10. Why should not Youth of the country continue their movement and be in power and hang all the politicians in public where we can have a country where nobody is called "backward" and everybody live with self respect, confident and dignity.
    Youth should now create a new life style , get rid of different surnames, should live together in communes, eat together and live together in harmony with nature and God.

    11. Why should not we get rid of all religions and accept only one religion called "Meditation" so that religion now can become another science getting rid of all old belief and dogma systems and each person can lead toward enlightenment or Nirvana rather than dying as a sheep of so called organized religions.

    ReplyDelete
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