Saturday, September 15, 2007

Outlook bschool rankings 2007

The 2007 Outlook rankings are a significant improvement over previous years. (2005, 2006).

The first good thing is that practically all important bschools are included in the 2007 survey. The IIMs have ended their boycott and participated officially. (Previously IIMs were included but on the basis of information obtained through RTI). Symbiosis was missing last year – it's there now. Sectoral schools like IRMA are also covered separately.

Bajaj and FMS are covered, although in a separate table of 'top university departments', a ranking where there are no numerical scores. (Fair enough – these instis are sadly behind in infrastructure and hence clubbing them in the regular list always results in a poor show).

So who's missing? MICA. IIT bschools like DMS IIT Delhi and VGSOM. Among private bschools: Welingkar.

Outlook does not rank IIPM due to issues with their lack of ethics in providing data to the magazine in the past.

What it says
Let's take a look at the rankings now. Since last year, Outlook has taken to ranking ‘government funded bschools’ and ‘private bschools’ separately. This year sectoral schools are included and ranked separately. You can view the rankings in that format at the Outlook site or CFore site.

We at JAM have compiled a combined table, for your benefit (which they have not provided). Click for larger image. This table has the top 30 ranked institutes - private, government and sectoral listed in order of final scores.

(The term nr* denotes institutes which were not included in last year's ranking).

The top 10 is a major improvement. Except for NMIMS which I would not place ahead of IIM K. No student would! I am happy to see ICFAI Hyderabad out of the top 10 where it was placed – undeservingly – in 2006.

This second table gives the list of institutes ranked 30 to 50. (Pardon the picture quality, some gochi in exporting from MS Word!).

Several schools have tumbled 5-10 places compared to 2006 but this is essentially because bschools which did not participate earlier have been included this time. eg Symbi, IRMA and other sectoral schools like MANAGE, IHMR etc.

These schools may see a boost in terms of applications, as many people would have been unaware of their existence and quality level. Although many sectoral schools rank higher than general bschools I would advise students to go for them only if that specialisation holds their interest.

Value add
There is a very useful table for students which has details on 'Salary offered for Indian jobs'. This could help students in making a decision. And realising the difference in future prospects between one bschool and the next more clearly. Something which is not clear from overall ranking alone.

For example, SJSOM (# 16) has a median salary of Rs 9.5 lakhs while ICFAI Hyderabad (# 14) has a median salary of Rs 6.5 lakhs.

Of course only engineers can apply to SJSOM – and I have never heard of IITians who wish to join IIT bschools. So one man's goose is another's gander...

The flaws
Outlook has proudly advertised ‘India’s most objective survey’ but certainly the facts provided by the bschools require more rigorous checking.

Here's an obvious mistake which I noticed while scanning the salary/ fee table. The table states ICFAI fees as Rs 5.1 lakhs, although for the top 4 campuses it’s actually Rs 7.5 lakhs , which is a huge discrepancy.

Similarly, my eyes popped out when I saw NMIMS charges only Rs 2.6 lakhs for its MBA. The website states:

1st Year
Rs.1,75,000/- (Open)
Rs.4,50,000/- (Management)

2nd Year
Rs.1,67,100/- (Open)
Rs.4,42,100/- (Management)

It’s not clear what % of seats are open and what % are merit but at the very least the Outlook figure is off by a lakh. I would hope there aren't too many such discrepancies - those of you currently at bschools may be able to spot more.

(Please note for all institutes – boarding, lodging etc is over and above the fees and needs to be budgeted for in the overall cost of the MBA).

I also do not agree with Premchand Palety’s assertion: “Although some are still behind the top IIMs in terms of overall scores, non-government schools are fast catching up. Don’t be surprised if IIMs lose their top positions in our Bschool rankings in the near future. It’s now in the realm of possibilities”.

Um, sure. And the government of India just handed Kashmir over to Pakistan.

Laudable as efforts likethe NMIMS joint doctoral programme are I see no change possible in the top ranking of IIM A, B,C,L, XLRI – at the very least – for the next 10 years to come. As long as the CAT selection process remains what it is

And even as far as research goes – let’s face it. IIMs are not world class in this area. But they will be ahead of the private b schools because they attract people with a more academic bent of mind. And offer more academic freedom.

Plus, private bschools have a much higher teaching load in view of profitability concerns.

Lastly, I think ISB and Great Lakes should be covered. If they can't be clubbed with the 2 year courses, maybe a separate 1 year MBA ranking. Now that there are at least half a dozen such offerings (IIM A & IIM C PGP X, S P Jain Dubai, Singapore etc). Yeah, I know some of these courses are apples and some oranges but a way has to be found to assess their standing.

All in all, the Outlook bschool rankings 2007 are a commendable effort. Of course there is scope to refine it further and it is good to see that the people behind it are open to feedback and strive to better themselves each time.

Lastly, students are advised to never rely solely on rankings and research the specific choices available to them by checking with current students/ alumni of those bschools. It is after all a major decision in life you are taking.

I would also advise a campus visit, especially if you are looking at institutes ranked lower down the placement chain.

35 comments:

  1. Outlook seems to have given a more authentic ranking than business today at least :)
    Still i feel that public opinion always gives you a better idea of the status of a b school than these false and extremely biased rankings. I often feel that even IIM A,B and C get the top slot only because otherwise the list would look ludicrous. But if given a chance these mags wont hesitate in dethroning them too and putting IIPM perhaps at the top spot. Its all a business after all!

    ReplyDelete
  2. Amity has not participated in the Outlook rankings (or any rankings) out of its own choice. What you are saying is false. You can clarify this for yourselves from Outlook or Premchand Palety. Amity does feature in the BT ranking as BT did not ask the institutions for permission. There Amity is ranked 7th in the Country by Functional Heads which reflects how the industry feels about Amity.

    ReplyDelete
  3. I have always scoffed at the B-school rankings. For starters, they seem to be prepared in the same way we used to prepare our assignments at E-school and B-school i.e. the night before the deadline. And secondly, I have realized after studying in the best E-schools and B-schools that schools doesnt matter, its the quality of students which matters. And since the best brands would attract the most talented students they'd then be perceived as good. There are bad students in good schools and good students in so called unknown schools.

    ReplyDelete
  4. I am yet to come across a single student who would have preferred FMS/MDI/SPJAIN/NMIMS/NITIE .. (to name a few!) over IIM K or IIM I
    Probably, its because of the illusionist world we live in.

    However what has me curious is who certifies them as the "India's most Objective B-School ..". If some government or non-government institution (like AC Nielson) have certified their process then its not mentioned. If on the other hand its a Self-Certified claim, I think we need to wake up the snoozing Malpractices prevention authorities.

    Funny that the writer of the Blog conveniently overloks such glaring inconsistencies!

    ReplyDelete
  5. Nowadays, these lists are a dime a dozen, right?

    India needs a "Ranking" agency that releases standardized data each year. Until we have something like that, we will have to contend with ten different lists of Top ten B-schools. Lists that will be read, blogged about and then land in trash cans around the country.

    I am curious to know whether these lists actually influence MBA aspirants. Perhaps someone should do a survey about that!

    ReplyDelete
  6. Rashmi,

    Good insightful post but what caught my eye was this line:

    "Of course only engineers can apply to SJSOM – and I have never heard of IITians who wish to join IIT bschools. So one man's goose is another's gander..."

    A case of mixing metaphors here?

    What's good (or sauce) for goose, is good (is sauce) for gander is the original expression. That implies an equal treatment regardless of where you are coming from.

    While what you possibly meant was 'what's one man's meat is another's poison'.

    Didn't want to nitpick but couldn't resist this one.

    - Subrat

    ReplyDelete
  7. There are Facts related to colleges. The colleges have to gather all the facts. They have to make sense of them using some methodology, to come out with rankings. And then there are blogs like these which analyse these rankings. The lay man has access to the rankings and these analyses. Now when u consider that, at each level there are going to be flaws, and some of them get propagated, the lay man really has a difficult job to make a judgement for him/herself. phew!

    ReplyDelete
  8. so u wud consider IMT, MDI, NITIE in top 10 over IIM I & K?

    such statements are anti national to say the least. Even if one student takes his decision based on your analysis, would you be able to forgive yourself ever?

    NITIE is a good institute but is still does not have preferential placements from many corporates. So does SP Jain. Case in point is Deloitte.

    MDI is a place where average salary is higher than highest salary offered. I really wish to meet their prof in stats.

    I will be degrading myself if i even mention anything against IMT.

    Oh btw, take out some time, read student profile from all institutes and check number of students from IIT, NIT, BITs DCE in each of these institutes. You will get your answer.

    ReplyDelete
  9. hi,
    these rankings are biased.. I too have written how rankings for engineering colleges done by India Today and Outlook are different.
    more details: http://fundubytes.blogspot.com/2007/06/indias-top-colleges-rank-list.html

    ReplyDelete
  10. Hi--
    I have just passed out of fms--this year..
    Gine thru 2 years of interaction with other campuses and industry alike--I definitely feel there is no point in setting apart fms from the main list..
    Finally what matters is what does a bschool produce--fms students are in no way lesser than feloow iim--ppl wherever they work together..infact the PPOs in fms after summers saysthe same story..
    I guess go to any of the top notch companies post A, B and C they look at fms/xl/l in the same league--mdi/nitie/sp/iimi/k are in the next league definitely---
    Pls also note govt department lack in ifra but then they make students more practical and entrpreneurial--as they know taht they have to go through many workarounds to get anything implemented

    ReplyDelete
  11. I feel that churning out future entrepreneurs shoud be the top priority of B Schools! This week's Outlook for sure has taken this very fact in to consideration and given its rankings! You can get to read lots of real life examples in this issue.

    At the end of the day, cosy life with tons of 'security' is what everyone wants. But venturing something on your own can always be a great fun. I wonder if b schools in india are also thinking on the same lines.

    ReplyDelete
  12. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  13. The phrase "most objective" is surely relative to the Business today rankings because in absolute term its absolutely not the most objective evaluation. They have goofed up with the data Like for IFMR (ifmr.ac.in) the average was 5.7 & Median was 6 instead of the quoted figures which are much lower than the actual. The fees charged was 3 lakhs including the laptop and study material (books, binders, reading materials).

    Outlook relies heavily on the secondary information but I think that there is a better way to look into the B school data is through the Mandatory Disclosure report which you can find on the websites of most of the institutes.

    But we are glad that outlook is atleast including institutes like us which Business Today is continuously ignoring.

    Liked the analysis written by you.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Hey Rashmi...
    I believe even AIMA has come up with its rankings. Your analysis is very accurate and insightful. Thanks for it :)

    There can b no objectivity to inferences and preferences in this topic of B-Schools. All said and done, there will always be subjectivity to an extent in their rankings and selection. So, I guess it is an individual perspective!

    ReplyDelete
  15. In the combined rankings,where both XLRI and IIML have climbed 1 rank each(viz-viz year 2006) ,XLRI shows -1 in front of it?
    Galti se mishtake?

    ReplyDelete
  16. You are a excellent writer. Can you give me some tips on how to write and article.Feels good to read the information provided by you. Very useful

    ReplyDelete
  17. You have done a great job of dissecting Magazine rankings over the past years. Perhaps JAM could tie up with BW to publish your findings to a wider adudience....just a thought:). Also came across this hilarious site http://site.nimonweb.com/faq.html

    ReplyDelete
  18. I just have a fundamental doubt. Both IIMB and IIML did not disclose their placement details and neither have their placement figures been listed in the Outlook list. If that is the case how come they still get points in the ranking? Doesn't make any sense at all.

    If they just want to make it ABCL with MDI thrown in between, why do they need these "objective" justifications?

    ReplyDelete
  19. All students know that IIM A,B,C,L,K,I and XL form the premier league.

    You have FMS and SPJain in the second league.

    MDI, JBIMS, NITIE, IIT Bombay, IIFT come next

    Folowed by; IMT ghaziabad, NMIMS, IIT Delhi, IMI, TAPMI

    ReplyDelete
  20. Atleast these are more realistic than BT ranks .....

    ReplyDelete
  21. Great Read Rashmi

    Felt even better when you spoke about adding Great Lakes and ISB in the rankings. Great Lakes, has better salaries and profs than some of the schools mentioned, just sad that it does not get covered.

    I am a Great Laker, passing out in 2008.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Hi Guys,a clarification, in the article the question raised about the fees yes the amount stated s what NMIMS students are paying and the number of Mgmt. Qouta seats is 15%. What is not included in the fees is your hostel fees which is pretty much the standard for every B-school.
    Vikhyaat

    ReplyDelete
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  26. ^^ nice blog!! ^@^

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